TSN Insider trading - Oct 27 - New expansion draft wrinkle?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Iceman90

Every organization needs depth farm guys.

Ideally not with second round and early third round picks though. They shouldn't be farm depth from the start.

[CroFlames]

I hate expansion. It can go to hell

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I hate expansion. It can go to hell

I can guarantee you don't hate expansion as much as jhunt223 did.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

That may be true, but I guarantee you don't hate expansion as much as jhunt223 did.

Shots fired.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

There's a chance he doesn't play significant time in the NHL this season. Would be difficult to justify claiming a non-NHL player for your team. That said, if we do lose him I'd be pissed but ok. Most teams are going to lose a player, and Shinkaruk isn't (yet) a keystone of our team. And it's basically just losing a Sven.

They claim (or apparently sign) 30 guys, there are only 23 roster spots. So why would it be difficult to justify taking a non NHL player when almost 1/3 of the picks won't make the roster?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

I find it more ridiculous that they haven't even figured this stupid expansion draft/rules yet. It's like they're just flying by the seat of their pants.

Or maybe they have it figured out and new details are just being leaked, after all it isn't the NHL releasing this info.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yes, because he'd played all of three professional games before this season and has a very good Stockton defense ahead of him. I'm convinced Kanzig will be an excellent Engelland replacement in a couple years. For the interim, free agency options exist.

That's optimistic to say the least. Kanzig will be lucky if he even becomes as good as Chris Breen.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

That's optimistic to say the least. Kanzig will be lucky if he even becomes as good as Chris Breen.

Amen. The guy has sped up, but his decision making is bad and he can't move the puck

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think anybody should be saying that Kanzig won't be an NHL player. He is a unique and intriguing prospect, and his skating is rather amazing for a player of his size. You can't count on him making it, but you shouldn't count him out either. Just because he got sent down to the ECHL is fairly irrelevant - Kulak got sent down to the ECHL too. The ECHL isn't the graveyard that it once was.

As for Jokipakka vs Engelland - before we decide on either, I would like to know what they are both looking for in terms of their next contract. If either one prices himself out of the Flames, that is the one I hope that Vegas selects. It is also no guarantee that Engelland would want to play in Vegas anyways, even if he does live there in the off-season. Lots of players don't want anything to do with their hometown teams. Some players dream of playing for the hometown squad. Everyone is different.

As for the open-window on negotiating with free agents, I think it gives Vegas a leg-up only on the '3rd tier' types. A Brent Burns isn't going to sign with Vegas ahead of talking to the other 28 29 teams, if he has decided to test free agency and doesn't feel San Jose is a fit any longer. A guy like Versteeg? Engelland? Sure.

Vegas may gamble (pun intended) on some 2nd tier UFAs and make them think twice about passing up the offer - that is where there really advantage is I believe. The rest of the UFA class are the types that stick around through most of the summer hoping to land a contract. Doesn't seem like much of an advantage really.

I think this is just to help close out a possible loophole with teams intentionally keeping their upcoming UFAs unsigned with a 'handshake' agreement in place on a contract to be signed after the expansion draft happens. The 'superstars' won't care as they will get their money anyways, but it does leave open some risk as they can get blown away by an offer, and possibly get sold on the idea of playing in Vegas.

I am ok with losing a Shinkaruk, or Jokipakka, or Engelland (even though I love Engelland) and probably anyone else outside of Bennett, Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer and probably Ferland as the 7th protected guy, and anyone other than Hamilton, Brodie, Giordano on defence.

You can only lose one guy. Sucks, but these are replaceable.

[doctajones428]

Jones, Nakladal, Jokipakka, Tuulola, Kanzig.

Strangest favourite player list ever

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't think anybody should be saying that Kanzig won't be an NHL player. He is a unique and intriguing prospect, and his skating is rather amazing for a player of his size. You can't count on him making it, but you shouldn't count him out either. Just because he got sent down to the ECHL is fairly irrelevant - Kulak got sent down to the ECHL too. The ECHL isn't the graveyard that it once was.

As for Jokipakka vs Engelland - before we decide on either, I would like to know what they are both looking for in terms of their next contract. If either one prices himself out of the Flames, that is the one I hope that Vegas selects. It is also no guarantee that Engelland would want to play in Vegas anyways, even if he does live there in the off-season. Lots of players don't want anything to do with their hometown teams. Some players dream of playing for the hometown squad. Everyone is different.

As for the open-window on negotiating with free agents, I think it gives Vegas a leg-up only on the '3rd tier' types. A Brent Burns isn't going to sign with Vegas ahead of talking to the other 28 29 teams, if he has decided to test free agency and doesn't feel San Jose is a fit any longer. A guy like Versteeg? Engelland? Sure.

Vegas may gamble (pun intended) on some 2nd tier UFAs and make them think twice about passing up the offer - that is where there really advantage is I believe. The rest of the UFA class are the types that stick around through most of the summer hoping to land a contract. Doesn't seem like much of an advantage really.

I think this is just to help close out a possible loophole with teams intentionally keeping their upcoming UFAs unsigned with a 'handshake' agreement in place on a contract to be signed after the expansion draft happens. The 'superstars' won't care as they will get their money anyways, but it does leave open some risk as they can get blown away by an offer, and possibly get sold on the idea of playing in Vegas.

I am ok with losing a Shinkaruk, or Jokipakka, or Engelland (even though I love Engelland) and probably anyone else outside of Bennett, Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer and probably Ferland as the 7th protected guy, and anyone other than Hamilton, Brodie, Giordano on defence.

You can only lose one guy. Sucks, but these are replaceable.

I'm not sure why we can't. We're talking probabilities here and he's a real long shot. I get that he has some intriguing qualities, but he has so many signs pointing to not being an NHLer IMO. At some point his potential gets close to zero. I think we're there

It's possible any prospect can make it, but if we're talking honestly, I see more potential in the next 2-3 years in Kylington, Andersson, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Hickey, and Fox. He looks overwhelmed any time I've watched him.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'm not sure why we can't. We're talking probabilities here and he's a real long shot. I get that he has some intriguing qualities, but he has so many signs pointing to not being an NHLer IMO. At some point his potential gets close to zero. I think we're there

It's possible any prospect can make it, but if we're talking honestly, I see more potential in the next 2-3 years in Kylington, Andersson, Culkin, Wotherspoon, Hickey, and Fox. He looks overwhelmed any time I've watched him.

This is his first pro season, and on top of which these over-sized players are typically more long-term projects. Yes, he got sent back to junior for his 20 year old season, but this is his first pro season.

I don't have a problem with the "I really don't believe Kanzig will make it" so much as "Kanzig is a waste of a pick and he will never be an NHL'er.". Especially when people cite his lack of foot speed as a concern (he is actually quite fast, though needs that first step to be improved, but his skating is better than a few established defencemen in the NHL, quite frankly).

You can go up and down the years and through all the prospect lists, and see that these 'guarantees' were absolutely wrong in hindsight.

Ferland was blasted on these boards as well when he got sent back in his 20 year old season (especially after starting in the AHL that year). Probably lots of comments about him 'never making it'. Looks like a regular NHL'er to me now. Heck, I may have even posted that I am disappointed and that he probably won't make it - I have learned since then not to be so 'down' (or be so 'up').

I am not expecting or even wanting people to pump up every Flame prospect out there (heaven knows I still don't think much of Shinkaruk), but I just find the posts proclaiming a prospect to be a bust, or a waste of a pick, etc., especially when the 3 year ELC isn't up yet, or when they have a bad season (like Poirier, Klimchuk).

[Cactus Jack]

Engelland will be 35 before the season ends. We could use a player like him but realistically how many more years do we want to sign him for?

[Weitz]

So in other words Vegas would have to convince an RFA or UFA-to-be to sign with them? What are the chances of that actually happening?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Amen. The guy has sped up, but his decision making is bad and he can't move the puck

Outside of being too fast, sounds like he would make an excellent replacement for Engelland then...

[Bandwagon In Flames]

It's okay guys, TheScorpion has seen Kanzig play in person. He is more qualified to judge this player than the rest of us. He seems very confident in his ability to evaluate talent so I think we should believe him.

BTW David Jones is going to score 15 goals this year.

[Freeway]

I really like Keegan Kanzig as a human being, but let's not blow sunshine up his butt. He's in the ECHL right now because he's the 15th-best pro defenseman in the organization.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So in other words Vegas would have to convince an RFA or UFA-to-be to sign with them? What are the chances of that actually happening?

There are only 31 NHL teams... if you're a veteran depth player it ought to be real hard for you to turn your nose up at a contract given how young the league is getting. So I think they could convince someone... they won't because the type of player they could convince to sign before the regular free agent period isn't the type you want to burn an expansion draft pick over... but they could.

[FBI]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Jones, Nakladal, Jokipakka, Tuulola, Kanzig.

Strangest favourite player list ever

To be fair, E2 is pretty intriguing and looking good in Everett.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Parallex

There are only 31 NHL teams... if you're a veteran depth player it ought to be real hard for you to turn your nose up at a contract given how young the league is getting. So I think they could convince someone... they won't because the type of player they could convince to sign before the regular free agent period isn't the type you want to burn an expansion draft pick over... but they could.

Just to add, Las Vegas will also have $0 of their salary cap and $0 of their payroll budget committed at that point during this window.

They could conceivably outbid and outpay any NHL team for any UFA/RFA if they really wanted to.