Fire Gulutzan/Give him Coach of the year All Purpose Thread

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

This thread is absolutely embarrassing.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

This thread is absolutely embarrassing.

Feel free not to click on it and read it then. The way the Flames are playing hockey right now is embarrassing.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Tough part of the schedule coming up. Looks like it's almost time for someone to put up a reverse standings/draft watch thread.

We need to go about 43-29-2-2 (or about 0.592 w%) from today to make the playoffs (assuming 93 points is good as the low bar to sneak in). Ten teams achieved that or better last season (Florida, Washington, Pittsburgh, NYI, Dallas, St. Louis, Chicago, Anaheim, L.A., San Jose).

Can the Flames play the rest of the season like a top 10 team to sneak into the playoffs?

[BigBCalgary]

So much "trolling".... ugh

[iamca]

I made a comment in the game thread last night regarding the lack of leadership on this team as Gio was skating towards the referee and he mouthed off for an extra 2 minutes. In today's Sun, Gio was saying the same thing, lack of leadership and he took the blame during a post game interview.

This team is not playing as a team and there are plenty of fundamental things wrong right now and leadership is one of the basics that is missing. Can't come together as a team without the leaders stepping up and fulfilling their roles as leaders.

[Alpine Fisher]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

This thread is absolutely embarrassing.

I am a tier 1 fan (Season ticket holder).
Definitely a big difference in play from last year to this year, based on what I see watching the games at home.

Body language of the players and their effort suggests something is 'off'.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

We need to go about 43-29-2-2 (or about 0.592 w%) from today to make the playoffs (assuming 93 points is good as the low bar to sneak in). Ten teams achieved that or better last season (Florida, Washington, Pittsburgh, NYI, Dallas, St. Louis, Chicago, Anaheim, L.A., San Jose).

Can the Flames play the rest of the season like a top 10 team to sneak into the playoffs?

Thanks for this, I don't think some around here can appreciate how quickly a season can b squandered.

"Really? It's only been six games..."

Uh, yeah. In today's NHL with parity as it is you can't afford to be working out the bugs in your system through the first month of the season. By then you may already be out of the picture. The Flames are hurtling out of it.

[jlh2640]

No way would he get fired this early or should he be. But after the year yes !

[Erick Estrada]

I don't see how he could get fired mid-season unless things get to a Greg Gilbert type of melt down. Treliving will give Gulutzan more rope than Hartley got to justify the hiring.

[calgaryblood]

Honestly I haven't been a huge fan of Gulutzen but it just can't be the coaches again, can it?

The coaches didn't tell Giordano to take a brain dead penalty where he looked like he was taking down a cow at the stampede and then to add to that he takes a dumb unsportsmanlike penalty.

Did the coach tell Monahan to give away the puck and have Gio be burnt by the scrub Yakupov? Did he tell Monahan to skate like he's in quick sand? Not battle hard and play like a guy not wanting to break a nail in the corners?

Did the coach tell Bennett to continually lose his man and not ever be in the right position defensively? Or to always miss the net and not ever back check?

Did he tell Brodie to show up one of the slowest guys on the team after being the fastest last season? Is he out of shape? That's not on the coaches.

He definitely didn't tell them to not make clean crisp passes either.

The players are being let off the hook for playing like crap. I get they're used to the garbage system Hartley used which wasn't a system and it made for some exciting hockey but we did just come off a season where we gave up the most goals in the league and that was after a season where we would get badly outshot and badly outplayed and still win. That season was an outlier and not a way to be a competitive team.

It's the players who won't play the system. They're too worried about their point totals and not enough about being in the right position. Watch another team that plays with structure. Do you think you see guys like Hamilton throwing the puck up the middle and continually missing his checks in front of the net?

Does Toews who everyone likes to compare Monahan to skate like he's in a pre season game after giving the puck away? On that giveaway by Hamilton that led to the 5th goal against no one on the ice skated harder than Gaudreau. Gaudreau might not be playing great but it's not because of a lack of effort and you can't say that about the rest of the top guys.

To me it's not a systems issue but a lack of effort and execution of the system. Seems like the players don't want to play the system. Is that the coaches fault? It's his job to get them to play a system but he can't force them to play the way he wants. He's doing his job.

And this isn't 100% excusing the coach but I'd like to wait a bit longer than 6 games and crap effort by the players to call for his firing.

[Dr. Doom]

I've only had the chance of watching the first few games of the season so I could use some help...

1. What exactly is GGs "system" that the guys are having a hard time learning? I mean if that's a legitimate excuse, is it that complicated really?

2. Gio and his massive contract. I thought this guy was being paid to in-part lead the team. Since he got paid - and keep in mind this is coming from a Gio fan - the team results aren't there. With that kind of money this guy really needs to start showing that he's captain material no?

Sorry but the whole coaching things is getting old. It got Hartley fired, now it's about to get this guy fired? Something doesn't smell right here...

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am not on the bandwagon to get Gulutzan fired, even though I thought Hartley's dismissal was the wrong move. It is still too early. He is still a relatively inexperienced NHL coach (only 1 gig as an NHL head coach). This will take a bit more time than we hoped to get straightened out. He might just need a bit more time than a much more tenured coach would in ironing-out the issues.

However, for those that feel 'we always blame the coach - this is on the players', I offer this:

Since I became a fan of this team in 81, how many good coaches and good GMs has this team had?

GMs:
Fletcher
Sutter (until the last year)
Coates (I thought he did well with what he had)
Maybe Button - some good stuff at least along with a lot of terrible stuff.

That's about it. It is too early to point at Treliving and say he is good or bad - I like what I see so far, but we have to see what happens.

Coaches:
Badger Bob
Terry Crisp (he may have sucked, but he won a cup with us)
Dave King
Brian Sutter?
Darryl Sutter
Bob Hartley

I might have reached, and there will be disagreements on Hartley, Brian Sutter, Dave King and even Terry Crisp - but that just emphasizes my point.

I can't think of any other coaches that were 'good'. Flames have a LONG history of getting washed-up names (Keenan) and the "Brightest star who hasn't coached in the NHL yet" (Hay, Gilbert).

Sometimes it is on the coach, even if the coach has been replaced a number of times. The fallacy is believing that because the coach has already been changed, it is now 'fixed' and the problem lies elsewhere. It is like looking in a drawer full of loose batteries - some have been used and don't have any charge, some are manufactures' defects, and have nothing, but there is a few in there that are working. Just because you switched it out doesn't mean that the flashlight is broken - you may have used a dud.

That is how I see coaching.

Now, I am not saying that Gulutzan is a dud (I think it is too early to figure it out), but don't for an instant think that this team is 'Hard to coach' and are 'coach killers' simply because they haven't been able to find a good coach yet, or the right fit. That might have been a narrative to describe the 2004-2012 teams, but there has been quite a lot of roster turnover. Unless I guess you think that Giordano and Stajan are keeping the Flames like that (which is laughable).

I hope Gulutzan is the right coach. I think what this team really needs (and what this organization as a whole needed since its' inception) is continuity. I think firing Hartley was the wrong move because the continuity in having this team a 'hard working' team - something we haven't seen since Darryl Sutter, and probably not before Brian Sutter, and then Crisp and Badger Bob. I also don't think he 'lost the room' - that is complete rubbish as many players have come out and stated that he didn't, and even Gaudreau and Monahan went to his camp post-firing.

Treliving wanted to get his guy - call it philosophical differences, call it whatever you want - Treliving 'deserved' to get his guy he felt comfortable with. That is his 'right' as a GM. I said when he made the move, that the clock has officially started ticking as it was a big stamp on the team, and this is officially 'his' team now.

The Flames may keep faltering, or they might get their @#$# together. Time will tell. It is too early to say he needs to get fired, but it is also understandable to feel that way in light of all the lousy coaches this team seems to have a penchant for hiring.

The only thing I offer is that Gelinas should be getting involved on the PP. Flames started off terribly last year on the PP, but they finished in the top 10 if you discount the first month (or two? can't remember the stat off-hand now) of the season (which means, the PP was 'fixed' and had been for a long while). I would definitely get Gelinas involved there. Heck, "promote" Cameron to associate coach where he oversees both special teams, but leaves the nuts and bolts to Gelinas and Jerrard.

Let's see what the next 6 games brings us. It is too early for one side to say: "Fire the coach" and too early for the other side to say: "That's stupid, Flames always do that and it never works". By game 20, we will have at least a bit better of an understanding of what this team is doing.

[Alpine Fisher]

say what you want about Mike Keenan, the Flames made the playoffs with him in the 2 seasons he coached.
2007-08 Calgary Flames NHL Head 82 42 30 0 10 0.573 Lost in round 1
2008-09 Calgary Flames NHL Head 82 46 30 0 6 0.598 Lost in round 1

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

say what you want about Mike Keenan, the Flames made the playoffs with him in the 2 seasons he coached.
2007-08 Calgary Flames NHL Head 82 42 30 0 10 0.573 Lost in round 1
2008-09 Calgary Flames NHL Head 82 46 30 0 6 0.598 Lost in round 1

I say he sucked as a coach, and that is why he hasn't been able to find another gig in the NHL.

[Ashasx]

Keenan also had the services of prime, dominant Iginla, prime Phaneuf, prime Langkow, prime Cammalleri, semi-prime Regehr, etc.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

The Flames players are saying alot with their body language.
TJ Brodie doesnt look like he wants to be here. Giordano seems off. Gaudreau looks frustrated. Monahan looks un-inspired.

Bob used an approach of positive reinforcement and a never say die attitude. I can see why that was more effective in motivating the guys and keeping them upbeat, as opposed to x and o's coaches that are quick to bench guys and don't have the same charisma going for them.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Feel free not to click on it and read it then. The way the Flames are playing hockey right now is embarrassing.

He is right though. Calling for the coaches head after 6 games and putting in a new system is ridiculous panic. You are right in that the Flames are playing crap hockey right now but that is on the players.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Thanks for this, I don't think some around here can appreciate how quickly a season can b squandered.

"Really? It's only been six games..."

Uh, yeah. In today's NHL with parity as it is you can't afford to be working out the bugs in your system through the first month of the season. By then you may already be out of the picture. The Flames are hurtling out of it.

In all honesty it would have been utterly surprising if this team made the playoffs this year imho. They simply do not yet have the depth required to compete with playoff calibre teams. Systems aside, this start is showing they probably don't have the talent to beat even mediocre teams.

[bax]

And I thought CP was bad during the summer time sheesh

[CaptainCrunch]

know in the last few hours, I've changed my mind, and I'm completely embracing this thread and the concept, but how do we do it without reducing this franchise to an absolute laughing stock.

First of all, the Flames fire GG publicly and embarrassingly, preferably by a Calgary wide video conference announcement. That's right, we invite every Flames fan to join in on the Skype call. then at the end of it, Treliving will turn to the camera and ominously say, "Come out to the next game and see who the Flames have hired, you dare not miss it, it won't be shown on TV". Through this whole announcement Treliving will be wearing sunglasses and a Sheiks headgear.



In the background, Treliving will quietly hire back Hartley. He'll then bribe Eric Francis to write terrible articles speculating on who the new coach is. The names will go from Mike Keenan to Great Ceasar's ghost.

Then on game night the lights will go low and a single spotlight will shine on the Flames bench and a man in a suit will step onto the bench with a paper bag on his head. He'll raise his hands and nod to the fans knowingly.

His new assistant coach will be "Baggy mcbagface" as a salute to all of the internet smartguys



After the loss, over the next few days the unknown coach will speak using a voice/accent distorter, he'll be in the shadows and be like all mysterious and Eric Francis will continue to write stories speculating on who this mystery man is. He'll even throw out speculation that its North Korean dictator Kim Yung Un.



Or a lampshade



Anyhow, after weeks of getting lots of press, that would of course be extremely positive. Brad Treliving dressed as above would stand on the bench with the unknown coach and his assistant Baggy mcbag face and at the right minute pull off the bag revealing that the Flames head coach is in fact




Then Hartley will be hauled out on the ice and publically shamed to make the swerve complete.

#RogerNeilson
#HaroldBallard
#sarcastic sneer