I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What does this mean, exactly?



Brouwer is playing with intensity, Frolik is engaged. Is Gulutzan only having one on one meetings with them? Do Monahan and Giordano not speak English, should the Flames hire a Gulutzan to Broski translator for them?



What about the PP isn't working and should be scrapped? What's the new thing they should try?

Maybe some (many) players are not cutting it at the moment. Still, the coach is responsible for the success of the team, making adjustments as needed, and helping players out of their funks. His job and responsibility doesn't end when the X's and O's are drawn.

You can't be serious with your power play question can you? The plan is perfect and the staff has no responsibility if it's not working??

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What does this mean, exactly?



Brouwer is playing with intensity, Frolik is engaged. Is Gulutzan only having one on one meetings with them? Do Monahan and Giordano not speak English, should the Flames hire a Gulutzan to Broski translator for them?



What about the PP isn't working and should be scrapped? What's the new thing they should try?

Also - good coaches find ways to motivate their players. Different players need different tools to help them play with intensity. Some need to understand the "why", others need a kick in the pants, others need to feel supported.

That's one of the coach's jobs, particularly the head coach.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What does this mean, exactly?

Brouwer is playing with intensity, Frolik is engaged. Is Gulutzan only having one on one meetings with them? Do Monahan and Giordano not speak English, should the Flames hire a Gulutzan to Broski translator for them?

What about the PP isn't working and should be scrapped? What's the new thing they should try?

I personally would try a true 1-3-1 with gio at the line, JG on the right wall, DH on the left wall and Monahan as the middle guy on the 3. I would also try to gain the zone with more team speed and less 4 guys standing still and 1 guy carrying the puck.

On the 1-3-1 I would look for more one timers from Gio from the point with the screen and try rolling Brouwer out so he could take a pass from DH and have JG come down low for a backdoor one-timer.

[MisterJoji]

The whole Hartley situation just reflects so bad on Treliving. Everyone assumed Hartley would gone after the last year of his contract in 2014/15, so Brad could bring in his guy. Then Hartley goes and does something annoying like win the Jack Adams pretty much forcing Treliving to re-sign him to a 2 year extension. Then after the first year of that extension he fires him because the team had atrocious goaltending, a problem Treliving created. At least let him play out the last year of the contract you offered and maybe find him some competent goaltending. Yes I know, advanced stats blah blah blah, but the Flames have better advanced stats this year and look much worse. Practically everyone outside Frolik, Backlund, Brouwer looks undeniably worse and I'm not sure I buy the whole "lost the room" excuse. If this is what a players coached team looks like, give me a hard ass all day long (giggity).

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by heep223

I've said multiple times, they should go to an umbrella.

The current power play setup isn't working.

I am pretty sure Dave Cameron does not have a clue on the PP. This a guy who had Erik Karlsson and had the 28th ranked PP. I have a hard time discerning what they are playing on the PP. All I know is that the PP and PK are far and away the most coach reliant parts of hockey and we suck at both.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

You folks can all pipe down calling Treliving out for the Giordano signing. At the time this board would have shot Tree out of the cannon at Foothills Stadium of he didn't resign him.

Sure, it's a bad to awful contract but each one of you were ready to ink it. Meaning cut it with the sanctimony.

Nope not me. Never liked it as it was a bad contract the day it was signed.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So people believe that the Flames need a coach that can convince the players to play with intensity?
These guys shouldn't need a coach to provide that push.
I'm stunned about how some continue to let these millionaire players off the hook for poor execution.

This isn't like the Iginla years where the coach was up against a stubborn captain. There are no leadership issues with this team. The effort has been there from what I have seen but the players look rudderless.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So people believe that the Flames need a coach that can convince the players to play with intensity?
These guys shouldn't need a coach to provide that push.
I'm stunned about how some continue to let these millionaire players off the hook for poor execution.

At this point I think it's much more difficult to blame our heroes, young guys who we think are amazing than it is to blame the coach we know nothing about.

I've seen coaches take a lot of blame, but never this much this quick. Especially confounding since it is literally impossible for anyone to know what the coaches are doing and saying.

Given how we've placed a great deal of faith in our young core it is incredibly difficult to face the possibility that Johnny's struggling, Monahan hit a wall, Bennett isn't progressing as quickly as planned, Brodie has peaked and Gio's best days are behind him.

Those are scary propositions and I didn't even mention Elliott, Hamilton and our bad contracts.

Believing that all those guys form a core worth investing in and one that has contender potential but that a coach is screwing them all up is much more pleasant than facing the possibility we have a middling roster with only 1 star and some prospects who may not pan out as planned.

[activeStick]

Similar to how Gulutzan isn't telling the players to make poor pinched and do poor zone entries, the players aren't going out there not putting in effort or working hard in practice to learn the system. It's something in the middle and the team will figure things out eventually.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

At this point I think it's much more difficult to blame our heroes, young guys who we think are amazing than it is to blame the coach we know nothing about.

I've seen coaches take a lot of blame, but never this much this quick. Especially confounding since it is literally impossible for anyone to know what the coaches are doing and saying.

Given how we've placed a great deal of faith in our young core it is incredibly difficult to face the possibility that Johnny's struggling, Monahan hit a wall, Bennett isn't progressing as quickly as planned, Brodie has peaked and Gio's best days are behind him.

Those are scary propositions and I didn't even mention Elliott, Hamilton and our bad contracts.


Believing that all those guys form a core worth investing in and one that has contender potential but that a coach is screwing them all up is much more pleasant than facing the possibility we have a middling roster with only 1 star and some prospects who may not pan out as planned.

So players that have accomplished something in this league could take a step back at the young age, but coach that hasn't accomplished squat in this league as a head coach has to be good. Maybe the Head Coach just sucks so it doesn't matter what he's saying. At the end of the day, its up to the coach to get the best out of his players, if he's not then he's not doing his job.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

So players that have accomplished something in this league could take a step back at the young age, but coach that hasn't accomplished squat in this league as a head coach has to be good. Maybe the Head Coach just sucks so it doesn't matter what he's saying.

Huh? I think you quoted the wrong post. I said none of the things you are responding to.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Is it?
Why?
You've stated something as outright fact. But some of the non top players are playing well so how is that explained?

In what world, Jiri, does the phrase "major indicator" equate to "stated something as outright fact"? I realize you have got your back up on this issue, which means the forum can look forward to nothing but lectures from you on how you are right and everyone else is wrong, but at least show the courtesy to not outright make things up as you try to justify getting up on your high horse.

The absurdity of your desire to argue with everyone pointing fingers at the coaching staff is that you and I are seeing the same things - the issue is not effort. They are trying, but everything is a mess, and it is easy to see that everybody is out of sync. That indicates systemic issues. So you tell me, who is responsible for the system: Gaudreau or Gulutzan?

[JiriHrdina]

As usual you decide to make it personal. Pretty much your shtick.
Let me know when you are capable of debating something with someone who disagrees with you without resorting to that.

[Alpine Fisher]

Gaudreau played lights out in the World Cup. Then he comes here 2 weeks later and he seems constricted by a terrible system and lack of a bonifide RW'er.

I am pinning this on Treliving & the Coach

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

Gaudreau played lights out in the World Cup. Then he comes here 2 weeks later and he seems constricted by a terrible system and lack of a bonifide RW'er.

I am pinning this on Treliving & the Coach

I think it may actually indicate that the quality of the play in the World Cup was not great. Teams weren't playing suffocating D (except for Team Canada - who coasted to win the whole thing easily).
But many games had a pond hockey feel to it - perfectly suited to Johnny's game.

[Resolute 14]

Honestly, Jiri, what are you expecting? We can all see that our top players are playing poorly. But it feels like you actually believe it is merely coincidence that they all just happen to suck at the same time. And the only argument you have offered me is to point out a couple of non-stars playing passably well -- I presume you refer to Backlund and Frolik -- as if that invalidates all concerns about Gulutzan and his staff.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So people believe that the Flames need a coach that can convince the players to play with intensity?
These guys shouldn't need a coach to provide that push.
I'm stunned about how some continue to let these millionaire players off the hook for poor execution.

Yes I do believe the coach should be a motivator. It actually seems pretty obvious.

When you have a group of people trying to achieve something someone has to give them an overall direction and figure out how to get the most out of everyone's skill sets. You can apply this to any team effort in life, not just hockey.

You are making it seem like the Flames should just be able to put a pylon behind the bench (insert joke about Gulutzan here).

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Honestly, Jiri, what are you expecting? We can all see that our top players are playing poorly. But it feels like you actually believe it is merely coincidence that they all just happen to suck at the same time. And the only argument you have offered me is to point out a couple of non-stars playing passably well -- I presume you refer to Backlund and Frolik -- as if that invalidates all concerns about Gulutzan and his staff.

Again, I've been honest about the fact I haven't watched the team much, so my opinions are largely uneducated. I've admitted to that.
From what I have seen though, there are some players doing well: Frolik, Backlund (as you mention) but also Brouwer, Stajan, Chiasson.

The top players have been awful. Looking at them what I see is
- Johnny is not shooting enough, trying to do it all himself. Teams are swarming him and he hasn't adjusted. He needs to keep them honest by moving the puck quicker, either to team-mates or shooting. He passes on good opportunities regularly. World Cup may have actually not been good for his NHL season as the things he was doing there, will not work in the NHL.
- Sean, not sure what's up with him. Looks slow. Looks not right. Not moving well.
- Gio/Brodie both seem to be pressing to me. Similar problem to Johnny - trying to put the team on their shoulders
- Bennett looks like he's lost his confidence. Streaky guy that needs to get one to get going

5 on 5 play has been actually OK. Team has been brutal on special teams.
I don't see a system issue because I can't imagine this resembles anything close to how the coaches want them playing.

Reminds me of the team from a few years back where the players, led by 12, would give it a go for a few shifts, than throw it all out the window in favor of free lancing.

That's what I see, from what little I've seen.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Yes I do believe the coach should be a motivator. It actually seems pretty obvious.

When you have a group of people trying to achieve something someone has to give them an overall direction and figure out how to get the most out of everyone's skill sets. You can apply this to any team effort in life, not just hockey.

You are making it seem like the Flames should just be able to put a pylon behind the bench (insert joke about Gulutzan here).

I've said before that I think coaches get too much of the blame and credit when it comes to motivation. The modern NHL coach simply doesn't have the leverage to apply to players to motivate them, apart from ice-time. And even that is difficult to use against top players, because you need to play them to win. Benching players is something that can rarely be used against top players.

They need to be motivated by the concept of playing for each other and the end prize. I believe that's where you get true motivation, not just in sports. Purpose and Mastery. Do it for each other.

Plus, I don't think this is a motivation issue anyways.

I think this is an execution issue.

The guys are trying.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Believing that all those guys form a core worth investing in and one that has contender potential but that a coach is screwing them all up is much more pleasant than facing the possibility we have a middling roster with only 1 star and some prospects who may not pan out as planned.

So if that is the case (I don't believe it is) then there should be accountability for constructing that type of team, no? Sounds like a recipe for rebuild 2.0.