I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

calgarywinning · 10-23-2016, 02:52 AM

This is like the American Politics thread right now. GM, Coaches vs players. There is no good choice or highlight right now.

The players are going to have to step it up and work extra hard for the fans. The effort isn't there.

The GM will have to make a pretty quick decision on what the coaching staff is doing as we are very locked in right now with what our player position is.

Go_Flames4ever · 10-23-2016, 03:15 AM

Someone mentioned that BT's drafting has been very good, but I don't know about that as the 2015 and 2016 picks are still developing, so it's hard to tell so far.

The first rounders have been no-brainers obviously, but the those 2014 second rounders look to be horrible choices so far - Mason McDonald and Hunter Smith have not progressed and may have even regressed since being drafted. Demko was the more highly touted goalie at the time and looks to be on the right tract still while McDonald has looked worse. We could've had Christian Dvorak instead of Hunter Smith, I know revisionist history, but damn!

So I think drafting is still kind of up in the air for BT, hopefully the Swedish Ds turn out and Parsons, E2 and Manigiapane continue to develop well.

But the coaching hire feels and looks to be a disaster from the get-go.

Caged Great · 10-23-2016, 04:00 AM

To be fair, in 2014, it was Burke doing the drafting.

DeluxeMoustache · 10-23-2016, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

When was the last time the Flames had a competent GM before Treliving? Hell, to me there is no question that Brad is already the 2nd best general manager this team has ever had.

3 years ago, we were employing a guy who almost lost our 1st round pick for nothing (in a season where we tied for the lowest finish in franchise history). 6 years ago our general manager traded Phaneuf for nothing.

I realize that these aren't high bars for Treliving to hit, but he is a smart hockey mind. He is constantly involved in discussions around the league. We hear it from insiders that Treliving is always the busiest guy in the league. And more often than not, he gets fantastic value in his trades.

You can bet Canucks fans would rather have Gillis than Benning. I fear who we would replace Treliving with. The rumour before Treliving was hired was that Burke was going to select Nieuwendyk.

Just the thought of that terrifies me.

One of our GMs got Kipper and made it to game 7 of the SCF

Pointman · 10-23-2016, 04:24 AM

I feel a sort of Sutter 2.0 vibe about Treliving. Even though they have entirely different personality and background, their GM style is very similiar in that they both make bold sexy moves for shiny attractive toys, that look brilliant on paper but never really pan out on the ice.

bubbsy · 10-23-2016, 05:48 AM

We can debate this all we want, but at the end of the day, the best year this gm has had results wise was when the previous GMs team was on the ice. We can point out good trades and contracts but it is progression and winning that a GM is ultimately judged by.

Based on the results, there is nothing hinting that he has the instincts to build a winning roster.

The flames are headed for another bottom 6 pick. Even if they win 1st overall, Patrick seems the equivalent of an RNH 1st overall.

Scary times ahead for the flames. I predict we aren't even at rock bottom as yet.

Lanny_McDonald · 10-23-2016, 06:01 AM

Treliving take some heat? Hell yes. Get fired? Not yet. For me, Treliving just looked at his second strike. The three headed goaltender monster and his hiring of an inexperienced coach with no true tactician to ride shot gun are big strikes. One more whiff and he's done. His decision on trying to right this ship moving forward is what lasts as his legacy and may be inscribed on his tomb stone.

ricardodw · 10-23-2016, 08:23 AM

My biggest problem with Treliving is that he locked up up the core for long term when it had not accomplished anything. Outside of the committed core all the Flames can do is tinker with the support players with is an average of 1-2M

There is no way out for at least 4 years without a major blow-up and start over.

They were going along putting together a hardworking exciting team that made the playoffs and rather than build incrementally they went for the quantum leap to the top
signing Hamilton as though he was a proven top 2 d-man. They gave up a 1st round pick in the re-build mode. They filled in the support player budget with high paid UFAs.

Treliving made several long term high risk decisions based on potential rather than actual proven ability.

Monahan got treated as Toews.
Gio got treated as Keith
Hamilton got treated as Doughty
Gaudreau got treated as Kane

The actual accomplishments of Toews, Kane, Keith and Doughty at the stage in their careers when they got locked down significantly exceeded what the Flames guys have done.

If is like Treliving was getting advice on the importance of potential from Kevin Lowe,

JiriHrdina · 10-23-2016, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Treliving fired Hartley out of the blue. That came from out of nowhere. There wasn't any rumours Hartley was in the hotseat after the season ended. That firing shocked many fans in Calgary.
It was obvious Treliving wanted his own hire.
And he made it Gulutzan.
The vast majority of fans didn't have clue who the hell Gulutzan even was until they started searching this deer in a headlight Idiot.
Myself included had zero idea who this loser was.

So you admit to not knowing anything about the new coach but feel qualified to say he could be fired after a handful of games?

JiriHrdina · 10-23-2016, 09:01 AM

Why are some folks seemingly reluctant to point the finger on the most obvious direction...the Flames best players have been awful. There's your group to blame.

Travis Munroe · 10-23-2016, 09:05 AM

One day you can be a hero and the next having people call for your job.
Brad does not have a crystal ball. He can go by what he sees at that time and we all agreed that at the time
- shinkaruk was a steal for granlund (canuck fans lived)
- Johny under 7 is a steal despite losing a couple years
- Brodie was the best d contract in the league
- Mony was market value
- Elliot and Johnson signings were brilliant

Grossman signing is a scapegoat and means absolutely nothing. Free signing for depth and easily loses his spot if coaching feels someone is better.

Brad has put a very good team together and set us up for the future. If the execution or developmemt is not where we want it then that falls on others. Gulutzan is the only questionable decision and even that we do not know to be the problem.

In all the games this year we have lost it has beem because of special teams. Guys are playing like garbage but if we win the special teams battle we win the game.

Travis Munroe · 10-23-2016, 09:09 AM

And for anyone feeling Hartleys firing was a knee jerk reaction, he lost the room and his picking favorites despite production wasnt helping. Hartley is a very good coach with a short shelf life.

Erick Estrada · 10-23-2016, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Why are some folks seemingly reluctant to point the finger on the most obvious direction...the Flames best players have been awful. There's your group to blame.

The defense was awful under Hartley but the forwards consistently delivered goals. Now the defense is still awful but the team's top forwards are not scoring. I don't think Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, etc turned terrible at the same time so really there's only one place to point the finger and that's towards the head coach. I will say it looks to me like the forwards are simply having a difficult time grasping a new system and that's partially on them for sure and I would expect over time they may catch on and right the ship. Unfortunately it's looking like by the time they do the season will be lost.

IMO finishing bottom 6 again with the GM's hand picked coach means that the GM has to be on the hot seat. I like Treliving but man if you are going to fire a head coach you better ensure you hire a replacement that is better and I'm not convinced that's going to be the case here.

FlamesAddiction · 10-23-2016, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Besides Gulutzan (at this point), what would people have done differently?

I know it's not the popular opinion around here, but I have been pretty "meh" about most of his trades since he got here.

His signings have been good though. The RFA contacts have all been decent and I loved the Frolik and Brouwer signings.

I'm glad that Treliving isn't beyond criticism anymore by the fan base. It's too bad it took an awful HC hire to make it obvious that he isn't infallible.

heep223 · 10-23-2016, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Why are some folks seemingly reluctant to point the finger on the most obvious direction...the Flames best players have been awful. There's your group to blame.

Because look at the power play. That's all coaching. With some PP goals sprinkled in this season would look different.

kyuss275 · 10-23-2016, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heep223

Because look at the power play. That's all coaching. With some PP goals sprinkled in this season would look different.

Not saying its not coaching, but its on the players also. There is enough talent on the PP to score more than 1 goal in even the worst PP system ever built.

Resolute 14 · 10-23-2016, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Why are some folks seemingly reluctant to point the finger on the most obvious direction...the Flames best players have been awful. There's your group to blame.

You know that guy who always complains about how every girl he ever dated was straight up crazy? The reality, inevitably, is that he is the problem, not them.

It's one thing when a top player or two is struggling. But when all of them are, that is a major indicator the problem lies higher up the chain.

heep223 · 10-23-2016, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Not saying its not coaching, but its on the players also. There is enough talent on the PP to score more than 1 goal in even the worst PP system ever built.

If the players were simply not executing, that's another story and I'd agree. But the system is just horrible from start to finish. It's coaching.

They should go to an umbrella. Whatever they're doing now, pass it around the perimeter with no traffic, is not effective.

Strange Brew · 10-23-2016, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Why are some folks seemingly reluctant to point the finger on the most obvious direction...the Flames best players have been awful. There's your group to blame.

That is exactly what's wrong. Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, Monahan, Gaudreau and Elliott have all been awful.

The question is what do you do about that? How can so many top players be bad at the same time?

JiriHrdina · 10-23-2016, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You know that guy who always complains about how every girl he ever dated was straight up crazy? The reality, inevitably, is that he is the problem, not them.

It's one thing when a top player or two is struggling. But when all of them are, that is a major indicator the problem lies higher up the chain.

Is it?
Why?
You've stated something as outright fact. But some of the non top players are playing well so how is that explained?