[PGT] Canes 4 - Flames 2 FML

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Keep up this schtick for Patrick?

too soon?

Crap-tastic for Patrick

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Table 5

It would be a pretty crappy year to tank. I'd much rather they just fix their problems.

Yeah this is not a good year to be terrible as there doesn't appear to be many elite talents available via the draft so ideally even if they miss the playoffs you would hope they are in the race to the end and some of the younger players make some progress in their development.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Table 5

It would be a pretty crappy year to tank. I'd much rather they just fix their problems.

I would cancel my season tickets if I ever thought this team was deliberately tanking.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Not tonight. He's the only reason why it wasn't a 6 or 7 goal performance.

1st goal, player left alone all in front, stops the first shot, not the rebound. No help.

2nd goal, perfect screen by Engelland, couldn't see the shot from rask.

3rd goal, Kevin and Dougie both caught napping allowing a breakaway.

4th goal, 5 on 3 and they had sloppy stick work and poor positioning to allow the cross ice pass.

The team in front of him let him down due to poor play. He was the only good player in the game tonight.

Part of being a quality starter in this league is bailing out your team when they screw up. Thus far, Elliott has not bailed the team out when they make mistakes... They seem to pay the ultimate price, each time they mess up.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Table 5

It would be a pretty crappy year to tank. I'd much rather they just fix their problems.

But it would be pretty Flames to plummet to the bottom on the worst year of the last 3.

[Strange Brew]

Last year goaltending let the team down and BT did nothing about it. Some would argue the season was over so quickly there wasn't enough time and why give up an asset when chance of making any noise in the playoffs was remote.

Elliott is not the reason for the start but he certainly isn't helping. He's getting lit up. I am interested to see how the Flames handle him.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Part of being a quality starter in this league is bailing out your team when they screw up. Thus far, Elliott has not bailed the team out when they make mistakes... They seem to pay the ultimate price, each time they mess up.

You can't ask the goaltender to bail you out a dozen times a night, every night, and expect success.

Every goal we gave up last night was on the defence, not the goaltender.

[mrdonkey]

-The team looks lost/disinterested/confused
-The coach knows what he wants out of this group but they aren't responding and/or not understanding "the system"
-Flames are playing boring hockey
-Powerplay looks godawful
-Give it time, the team is just learning to play a new style
-It will take time to iron out the bad defensive habits of the previous regime
-Forwards being played in situations above their heads because of depth issues

These are all points that I distinctly remember being discussed when Brent Sutter was coaching. Skill-wise I don't even know if this team is any better than the one he was working with before the Phaneuf trade. This is all just a little too familiar for my comfort.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I would cancel my season tickets if I ever thought this team was deliberately tanking.

I don’t think teams deliberately set out to tank (save perhaps the Pens with Mario, and the Sabres a couple of years ago), but I think it would be naive to think that at certain times when reality sets in, teams don't actively make moves that prioritizes their future ahead of the present.

And honestly, I don’t blame them. I think for some teams in some situations, losing is better than treading water. The Flames refusing to move on from aging vets is a pretty good example of when this team would’ve been much better off losing than winning. Them wasting away half a decade turned me away from attending Flames games much more than the Young Guns era ever did.

Having said that, this current team is no way in any position to think like that. Despite the setbacks, I think there are still some great pieces on this team, and the only direction management should be looking at is forward and upward. Them tanking now would be pretty disappointing.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You can't ask the goaltender to bail you out a dozen times a night, every night, and expect success.

Every goal we gave up last night was on the defence, not the goaltender.

I agree the goals are a result of defensive breakdowns, but if you're not going to make the saves you shouldn't, you won't make it as a starter in this league.

Starting goaltenders need to be able to steal games. Elliott needs to steal games for us while we figure this mess out. Johnson stole a point for us in Vancouver, on a night where we never scored a single goal thru 60 mins of regulation, 5 mins of OT, and 4 shooters in the shootout.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by polak

If by Game 10 they're still playing like this there needs to be a big shake up. We get to the 20 game mark and we're still playing like this we'll probably be picking 1st OA.

Treliving should be on the hotseat this season too. The only success this team has seen on his watch was Feasters team and a regression like that in year 4 of the rebuild is unacceptable

If Treliving is fired, I fear who replaces him.

I don't think there is a better hockey mind available.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If Treliving is fired, I fear who replaces him.

I don't think there is a better hockey mind available.

Don Maloney is already on the staff. Why not him?

[Ashasx]

I like Maloney as part of this management group, but what has he done with the Coyotes that makes him at all more appealing than Treliving?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You can't ask the goaltender to bail you out a dozen times a night, every night, and expect success.

Every goal we gave up last night was on the defence, not the goaltender.

he certainly isn't playing well

Breakaway goals against are all looking pretty similar

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If Treliving is fired, I fear who replaces him.

I don't think there is a better hockey mind available.

I think Treliving is a good gm too but the coaching switch looks bad. It was weird at the time, it's still weird now. The team's problems last year was goaltending. Now it is starting to look like it's a defence problem, which while still is on Hartley to some degree, at least Hartleys system brought the offence. The current system has nothing.

Calgary looks like the worst team in the NHL with a roster that should be middling. That's on coaching.

I think the players whined about Hartley being tough and Treliving also didn't necessarily feel like Hartley was his guy or felt like they were totally on the same page. But maybe leaving Hartley alone and addressing the goaltending by itself was the answer. Now we have a bad start, bad coaching and you can't fix coaching 6 games into a regular season.

Things could turn around but Resolute's assessment in my mind is bang on 100%. The coaching change is the problem here. The players look like they're overthinking and not just playing. And that doesn't work at this level, despite the high skill level.

[Table 5]

Is it too late/early to call Ralph Krueger?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think Treliving is a good gm too but the coaching switch looks bad. It was weird at the time, it's still weird now. The team's problems last year was goaltending. Now it is starting to look like it's a defence problem, which while still is on Hartley to some degree, at least Hartleys system brought the offence. The current system has nothing.

Calgary looks like the worst team in the NHL with a roster that should be middling. That's on coaching.

I think the players whined about Hartley being tough and Treliving also didn't necessarily feel like Hartley was his guy or felt like they were totally on the same page. But maybe leaving Hartley alone and addressing the goaltending by itself was the answer. Now we have a bad start, bad coaching and you can't fix coaching 6 games into a regular season.

Things could turn around but Resolute's assessment in my mind is bang on 100%. The coaching change is the problem here. The players look like they're overthinking and not just playing. And that doesn't work at this level, despite the high skill level.

The players didn't have a coaching change to start last season, and they actually looked worse than they do right now.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I like Maloney as part of this management group, but what has he done with the Coyotes that makes him at all more appealing than Treliving?

Fair point, and I counter with what has Treliving ever done to keep getting the benefit of the doubt? He's got all his guys in place now, Hartley & Feaster are gone. Burke didn't interview anyone else, Treliving was just given the job without competition. Time for those two guys to start taking some heat.

At least Maloney has experience of being a GM of another team, something Treliving doesn't have.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The players didn't have a coaching change to start last season, and they actually looked worse than they do right now.

At least the hockey was entertaining to watch when Hartley was coaching. That 2-1 shootout loss to the Canucks was the worst Flames hockey I've seen in the last 12 years. Even Brent Sutter's version of the Flames was more entertaining then the garbage we've seen so far this year.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Fair point, and I counter with what has Treliving ever done to keep getting the benefit of the doubt? He's got all his guys in place now, Hartley & Feaster are gone. Burke didn't interview anyone else, Treliving was just given the job without competition. Time for those two guys to start taking some heat.

At least Maloney has experience of being a GM of another team, something Treliving doesn't have.

Well, now they both have experience of being general managers, but I'll take Treliving's effort of constantly trying to improve the team and not being completely unaware of advancements in hockey analytics over Maloney's quiet tenure with the Coyotes that left them with Mike Smith's contract and a buyout for Ribeiro.