[PGT] Flames lose third straight. Canucks 2, Flames 1 (SO)

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

I can't believe the Flames couldn't even muster a single goal against the lowly Canucks.

Really hope they turn things around fast, but I fear it will turn out like the 2009/2010 season when the Flames hired Brent Sutter.

They looked to be out of gas in the third period and struggling to hang on to the lead. Considering it the 3rd game in 4 days i'm willing to gove them a pass.

[bigrangy]

If the lines change:

Gaudreau-Backlund-Frolik
Ferland-Monahan-Brouwer
Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg
Bouma-Stajan-Chiasson

JG needs someone who can keep up to him and Monahan is not that player right now. Stick him with Ferland and Brouwer who have both been pretty solid to start the year.

I'd rather not mess with the lines. Once the team gets some practices in and gets up to game speed they should be better. Team Europe looked like dog#### in their pre-tournament and they managed to pull themselves together. Can't give up unless they go like 0-7-1 or something. At that point, fire everyone, trade everyone, and fold the franchise.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Dion

They looked to be out of gas in the third period and struggling to hang on to the lead. Considering it the 3rd game in 4 days i'm willing to gove them a pass.

Agreed, they were really tired. They were probably saved by the fact that the Canucks were rusty from this being their first game.

Overall, it was a good effort by the Flames but fatigue probably caused a lot of the brain farts and misplays.

They looked better than they did against Edmonton but that could be because the Canucks don't have McDavid.

Could also be because Wideman wasn't in the lineup.

[868904]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

If the lines change:

Gaudreau-Backlund-Frolik
Ferland-Monahan-Brouwer
Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg
Bouma-Stajan-Chiasson

JG needs someone who can keep up to him and Monahan is not that player right now. Stick him with Ferland and Brouwer who have both been pretty solid to start the year.

I'd rather not mess with the lines. Once the team gets some practices in and gets up to game speed they should be better. Team Europe looked like dog#### in their pre-tournament and they managed to pull themselves together. Can't give up unless they go like 0-7-1 or something. At that point, fire everyone, trade everyone, and fold the franchise.

There's no need to split up Gaudreau and Monahan. Both of them are struggling and both missed preseason. They just need to work through this. It doesn't matter who the RW is, Gaudreau is the key. When he gets going, that line will be fine. I haven't been disappointed with Versteeg, but wouldn't mind seeing Chiasson on that line. He brings a very different element to Gaudreau and Monahan. Maybe he can be a net front presence that allows Gaudreau to sometime take an easy play of just throwing the puck on net rather than creating something out of nothing.

Don't mess with Backlund and Frolik. Stick with proven chemistry. For that reason, I'd also put Bouma back on Backlund's LW.

I'd give the Tkachuk-Bennett-Browuer line a bit more time. I know it was only preseason, but they were really good together.

That leaves, a fourth line of Ferland-Stajan-Versteeg. Doesn't look like much, but you never know when it comes to chemistry. Actually, I'd like to see F. Hamilton in for Stajan. Stajan is a great guy, but I think the game has passed him by now.

[activeStick]

Like EE said, the Flames were going to start 0-3...

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Like EE said, the Flames were going to start 0-3...

0-2-1, big difference.

[The Professor]

Watched the first period. Went to a puppet show. Glad I did.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

If the lines change:

Gaudreau-Backlund-Frolik
Ferland-Monahan-Brouwer
Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg
Bouma-Stajan-Chiasson

JG needs someone who can keep up to him and Monahan is not that player right now. Stick him with Ferland and Brouwer who have both been pretty solid to start the year.

I'd rather not mess with the lines. Once the team gets some practices in and gets up to game speed they should be better. Team Europe looked like dog#### in their pre-tournament and they managed to pull themselves together. Can't give up unless they go like 0-7-1 or something. At that point, fire everyone, trade everyone, and fold the franchise.

#### sakes, Ferland? Where is the bus to Stockton

[iamca]

If division losses are going to continue with the Flames giving away points, then I am pretty apathetic about staying away from any hope for a improvement over last season, might be a step back.

[kehatch]

It's always fun to go to the Canucks boards after a loss. Irrational, dramatic, apathetic. As a Flames fan it's high entertainment.

Coming here after the last loss... Well, I think a bunch of you should go be Canucks fans.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

It is deserved. Flames got shut out by a team most have pencilled on to be a lottery team. This new coach and treliving should bd getting nervous. Treliving has shown the ability to make moves on paper but the on ice product has been terrible (feaster deserves any credit for the playoff year).

As a flames fan I am worried about the core, the coaching hired, the gm ability to build a winner (a pto is the "planned" 1st line rw on the team).

Not that I am happy with our start (I am upset as ####) but how else is a GM supposed to make moves in this league?

He doesn't put on skates. He's not behind the bench. What else is he supposed to do?

99% of the moves he's made have been praised by analysts around the league. This forum has been happy with them. Should he use a magic 8 ball? Make deals and signings on a whim?

Or should he carefully plan and consider every move he makes?

[Canuck-Hater]

Good god I'm so sick of these callers on OT crappin on Elliott. Did they not watch Hiller last year?

[Ashasx]

I'm going to blame the players. Monahan has looked like absolute garbage and really hasn't progressed as a player for over a year. He's not strong defensively, his skating is still average, and doesn't drive offense. I know progression isn't linear, but I'm just seeing nothing to get excited about from him right now.

But I'm mostly disappointed in Bennett. I actually can't believe how far behind Draisaitl he is right now, and I was probably the happiest person on this forum when the Oilers passed on him. I actually don't know what Bennett is going to be for us. Is he a 3rd line pest, or a skilled top 6 forward? Is he a winger or a center?

And we were talking about how so many of our players not being selected for the World Cup would be a positive. Giordano and Brodie have been so poor to start the season it's just unacceptable.

And I've mentioned it before, but where is the passion and emotion from the team? Why do Monahan and Hamilton look like they are completely apathetic?

Nice to see the players show up for their coach.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm going to blame the players. Monahan has looked like absolute garbage and really hasn't progressed as a player for over a year. He's not strong defensively, his skating is still average, and doesn't drive offense. I know progression isn't linear, but I'm just seeing nothing to get excited about from him right now.

But I'm mostly disappointed in Bennett. I actually can't believe how far behind Draisaitl he is right now, and I was probably the happiest person on this forum when the Oilers passed on him. I actually don't know what Bennett is going to be for us. Is he a 3rd line pest, or a skilled top 6 forward? Is he a winger or a center?

And we were talking about how so many of our players not being selected for the World Cup would be a positive. Giordano and Brodie have been so poor to start the season it's just unacceptable.

And I've mentioned it before, but where is the passion and emotion from the team? Why do Monahan and Hamilton look like they are completely apathetic?

Nice to see the players show up for their coach.

I'm with you on Bennett. I think he's the lynchpin for the Flames success. He continually looks like he's almost there, if he could just drive a little harder, stay on his feet a little longer, be one more step ahead, or fire his shot just an inch one way or the other. But he hasn't managed to have that impact so far, and he doesn't look much closer to doing it.

I'd really like to see him with Gaudreau for an extended stretch, to see what he can do. He's still very young, but that means that he should be making rapid progress (more rapid now, at least, than we can expect in the future). I'm not seeing that yet, which is concerning. Lots of time left for him though.

[Galakanokis]

Can't say too much other than our best players are not our best players. I will not condemn the coaching until I see our top forwards play like they are expected to play as well as our top D. I have not been overly happy with Giordano or Hamilton so far this year.

But there is lots of time and I am confident in this team, I think a lot of the pieces are there.

And a big shout out to FBI for the ticket tonight. Had a great time, really appreciate it. Let me know when you're back for the next one.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The good:

Giordano!
Jokipakka
Backlund was mostly good, but coughed up the puck too much tonight - but was good
Johnson - he was very good tonight.

The bad - the rest of the team mostly.

Still giving the team a pass for now, but they are starting to dig themselves a hole now. This league is ultra-competitive now. If the team doesn't have this thing turned around by game 10, I will have to look at this team as a lottery team again in order not to be overly-frustrated.

Johnny is.. not playing well. I don't care if he is getting hooked and slashed. He is giving the puck away too much, and not really being the controlling offensive presence out there.

Monahan - I give him a bit more of a pass. I bet he is not 100%. Either his back is still bothering him, or he doesn't have his legs/timing yet. He looks worse right now than when he first started in this league. I am betting he is not 100% healthy.

Brodie seems disjointed right now too. It is unlike him to make many errors in a game. I am not worried about him though.

The Chiasson penalty was gross - sure, Chiasson skated to Dorsett, but Dorsett gave Chiasson a bigger shove.

Flames were better on D tonight. There's that. Work on the D, eventually guys will start scoring. However, I saw stretches where they fell into Hartley's 'passive' defence. I like this defence more when they pressure.

Gulutzan has to start feeling the heat right about now. When you are a new coach, you are eager to get that win. Most new coaches get that win pretty quick, as the team is 'responding' and playing hard. Showed too much respect for the PTOs in the preseason - this team should have been better prepared.

Like Hartley or not, but when thing I thought he did really well was prepare the team. Lots of teaching and teaching and teaching, even on morning skates. Is Gulutzan doing the same? I don't know. I am still giving him a chance (though I understand why Treliving fired Hartley, I still do disagree with it, but keeping an open mind about him). I still will not judge Gulutzan's system until game 20.

Oh, and Kulak was decent today. I hope he keeps it up.

Right now, the Flames look every bit a young team with a new coach. Inconsistent and disjointed. They look elite at times (well, the competition level so far hasn't been great) and then look like complete rubbish. They need a win here soon - a couple of wins soon - and buy themselves some time to iron-out the system and get everyone on the same page. It is just a disjointed team throwing blind passes at the most inopportune times, and holding their sticks way too tightly.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Obvious Gulutzan errors:
1 defensive pairings in game 1
2 pulling goalie too early in game 2
3 shootout selection in game 3
Not an NHL coach there BT.

So who should shoot instead of Bennett, Gaudreau or Monahan?
And iirc, stats show pulling tender early is more successful.
D pairs in game 1 were no good

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by zamler

How many games probation do the Flames get exactly?

20 games?
That's what Peter Maher has always said. Games 20 to 40 tell you what kind of team you have.
Given new coach and learning curve of new systems, and late arrivals to the lineup, I'll go with 20 games.
Which doesn't make this suck any less right now

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Not that I am happy with our start (I am upset as ####) but how else is a GM supposed to make moves in this league?

He doesn't put on skates. He's not behind the bench. What else is he supposed to do?

99% of the moves he's made have been praised by analysts around the league. This forum has been happy with them. Should he use a magic 8 ball? Make deals and signings on a whim?

Or should he carefully plan and consider every move he makes?

3 headed goalie last year.

Useless training camp to prepare for beginning of the season where the team has handed 6 points to division rivals this year is what I mean.

[tkflames]

I feel like I watched a different game that most people here. First let me emphasize that loss was really disappointing especially against a terrible Canucks team trying to find their legs.

Postives:
1. I was surprised to see Bennetts line matched against the sedins for a good portion of the night (likely matched by the canucks). I thought they played great against them.

2. Brodie while having a bit of rust is a top end player in the league. I don't think we give enough credit to what we have here.

3. Technically a negative, but the power play looks much better than last year. The quick passes to get put of trouble will work eventually.

4. Backlund is our top center right now and the Frolik/Backlund combo is by far our best line. Hard to say that this is because they have been part of GGs training camp since backlund was almost as injured as Monahan.

5. It looks like the team is starting to transition to a possession game. This will come over time. You can see that they are trying to use set plays in the offensive zone during entries and to open space. This will help. Two years ago the league struggled to defend against our hail marry breakaway passes. Last year's lack of success was largely trying to use the same style against a league that had the book on us. As they continue to mature with the ewe system, I believe we will see less and less of this and more turning back to regroup as a 5 man unit...hard to say at this stage if we have the horses for a possession style. I believe the actual skill level of our team as a whole is a bit overrated.

Negatives:
1. Our core is killing us. Overall their game is OK, but the execution that they get paid for has been terrible. We had almost $25M worth of salary hemmed into their own zone with 5 minutes left by some old swedes (sedins, Ericsson, edler). Johnny and Monahans execution has been terrible. Same for Brodie and Gio (offensively)

2. The team was not ready to play to start the season. This is 100% on the coach, management and the core. Cuts came way too late, poor experiments, poor execution.

3. You can clearly see a difference between the preseason and regular season. Tkachuk and Bennet are learning this the hard way. It will be interesting to see if they can turn the corner or if Bennet is in for a softmore slump and Tkachuck is due for a world juniors appearance.

4. Our right wing is terrible and could get worse if Tkachuk gets sent back.

5. The most concerning part is that we have not had any injuries to start the season and have overall sucked in all 3 games. Either this team finds a way to figure it out or it will be a long season before we get some decent turnover.