[PGT] Booo, we suck - EDM 5 CGY 3

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

They bought out a $3 million player. You might be right, but I don't know their tipping point.

If they don't like their money wasted, as I'm sure they don't, they're not gonna be happy Grossman is signed to a 1 way deal.

If the owners are going to be upset over a 575k player on a one way or insist that a 5.25m dman plays despite the fact he sucks, we have much bigger problems than we think.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

It is so damn obvious we need to shuffle our forward lines. We have a soft ass first line and a 2nd line of hard nosed guys. Brouwer up. Versteeg down. Consider Bennett with Gaudreau. Monahan with Tkachuk.

Wideman is an embarrassment. He has this constant look of confusion.

The coach is seriously in trouble if we give up another 5+ goals to Vancouver. Not that he will be fired if that happens, but he will be on a really short leash.

Giordano looks terrible.

The first line and the power play rely way too much on Johnny. To the point everyone is standing still and hoping he will make some magic happen. The d-men cant hold the puck in the zone or even be in position to receive simple back passes. Frolik and Engelland have been our best players. Tkachuk has been fine.

Monahan is insanely soft for a guy his size. Hardly ever checks. His skating has hardly improved since he was drafted he still looks barely average in that department.

Hamilton looks completely lost in this system. I like the bit of snarl hes shown but he isnt playing the way you would expect him to play.

I think Hartleys strength is Glens weakness. Hartley studied our team and players and tried to put them in a position to play to their strengths, while sacrificing strategy.
Glen is all about strategy and doesnt pay much mind to the strengths and weaknesses of the players.

I see soo much Dallas Eakins in our coach its really scary. A young coach who thinks he knows something nobody else does, smartest guy in the league trying to revolutionize coaching. I really hope I'm wrong about him but if this keeps going the way it has been and he chooses to be hard headed, refuses to change it up...I can see him fired very early. His style asks way too much of our defencemen and forces our forwards to exhaust themselves.

On paper we have the best forward group, best goaltending, best defensive core we've had in recent memory. There is no excuse for this. People need to drop the whole its Johnny missing camp, Monahan being injured, or its Elliott, or its just Wideman/Grossman. Sure those things factor in - but shouldnt result in 12 goals against in 2 games. Johnny played a month of hockey already in a system and role he claimed was very similar to the one he is being asked to play by GG. Monahan didnt break his back - it was a small injury and it was precautionary rest. Elliott has probably the best goalie stats in the past 5 years out of anyone in the league. Wideman and Grossmann are slow, stupid d-men who shouldnt play more than 10 mins a night including PP time, or be sat in favor of Kulak (grossmann shouldnt play at all).

I cant stand all the excuses people are making for this. Its been a #### show and the coaching is the biggest factor. We hired a special teams players coach with little experience - after he wowed Conroy on a hiking trip. Lets be honest with ourselves. I'm not saying its all doom and gloom but we shouldnt sugar coat this or blame it on 1 or 2 whipping boys / excuses. What does the fact we've beaten Edmonton a lot in the past few seasons have to do with how bad we've been ? Are we that desperate to console ourselves?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Like Giordano said, they played well in the 1st and then started to chase after that. This is fixable. Hopefully tonight.

That's been the problem for 3 years.

Not in the sense of "we lost two games, PANIC!" but when do we stop trusting that it's fixable?

[Red Slinger]

I thought, in general, the line combos were pretty good. The first line struggled to get any consistent pressure and were getting a little too cute at times, but that's to be expected to some extent. But otherwise, the Backlund, Bennett and Stajan lines were quite effective in my opinion although they all seemed to fall asleep in the 2nd period.

The real issue seemed to be on defense. Giordano looked awkward and uncomfortable, Brodie looked tentative at times, Kevin looked really nervous to start but picked it up later and Wideman looked like he was on another planet. The lone bright spot was, surprisingly, Engelland. The number of defensive breakdowns in the first two games were staggering.

The power play looked like it was trying to force everything to Gaudreau. When the Oilers adapted the PP become much less effective. The PK was good to start but then fell into bad habits later.

I was happy to see that Gulutzen changed the D pairings. But that should have been the case over the last preseason games and during game 1. I also think that the Gaudreau holdout and the Monahan injury affected the preparation and chemistry of the team. Nevermind that the top line literally had one practice before the first game. I really wish this team would start taking the preseason a little more seriously so that they are ready to play game 1.

I'm still optimistic about this team as long as they're able to settle down, play the system and quit using the first week of the season as an extended training camp.

[Flash Walken]

Wideman looks like a defenseman from a bygone era. The way he stands around on the penalty kill and drifts around in no-man's land like he'll be able to lay the lumber or interfere with a play around the net.

[heep223]

This thread is an embarrassment. It's not surprising that the start has been slow due to a weird camp and a new coach. Hold yourselves together, this is a good team and it will show.

[ComixZone]

The lines should stay as they are in all cases except for Engelland-Wideman. Scratch Wideman, play Kulak.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Versteeg
Tkachuk - Bennett - Brouwer
Bouma - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Stajan - Chiasson

Giordano - Brodie
Jokipakka - Hamilton
Kulak - Engelland

Go with that for the next 5 games, and do not waver.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by heep223

This thread is an embarrassment. It's not surprising that the start has been slow due to a weird camp and a new coach. Hold yourselves together, this is a good team and it will show.

Losing to the Oilers twice in a row while allowing 12 goals is the real embarrassment. I hope the players aren't making those kinds of excuses.

[Bingo]

Nobody likes a slow start, an 0-2 start, and certainly two losses to the Oilers. Nobody

But I think a scrambly start was always a possibility with a new coaching staff. Hopefully it's an adjustment period towards becoming a very good hockey team and not a massive mistake either in terms of coaching or personnel

I'm certainly going to give it more than 2 games to pass judgement.

Thought the Flames were the better team in many ways in Edmonton, and dominant in the first period last night. Very susceptible to the big play though.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah that's not going to happen and nor should it. You don't hire a guy and fire him on the basis of a slow start in his first season. Treliving hired him so he's going to get as much rope as possible and I expect even if this team finishes bottom 5 he would be brought back.

The next two games should be easy wins with Carolina being a slightly tougher one. If the Flames can't get two wins the coach will be on very thin ice. I haven't seen anything from him that gets me excited or even provides optimism. I would be disappointed to see Gulutzan around next season if we finished bottom 5.

[Southside]

First things first. Wideman and Grossmann need to sit. Grossmann was a terrible signing. Kulak and Kevin play.

The first line needs to pick it up. Granted they didn't have a preseason but they need to get up to speed fast.

Elliott hasn't been quite what we expected or need. However, you can't fault him on the breakaways, penalty shot and 3 or 2 on 1's. That said, he needed to make a couple saves that he didn't.

Not sure what to think of Gully. Our defence seem to be getting caught up ice. Make adjustments and fire Wideman and Grossmann into the sun.

Was sounding like Johnson gets the start tonight, and the Canucks are not very scary. We have a pretty heavy schedule to start and we need to turn this around tonight. Buffalo and Carolina are opportunities to solidify before we get the Blues next Saturday. We NEED at least 2 wins in the next 3 or we're going to be behind the 8 ball.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Nobody likes a slow start, an 0-2 start, and certainly two losses to the Oilers. Nobody

But I think a scrambly start was always a possibility with a new coaching staff. Hopefully it's an adjustment period towards becoming a very good hockey team and not a massive mistake either in terms of coaching or personnel

I'm certainly going to give it more than 2 games to pass judgement.

Thought the Flames were the better team in many ways in Edmonton, and dominant in the first period last night. Very susceptible to the big play though.

Agree with the bolded part. I actually like the style that they are trying to play here...just think that the coaching staff hasn't figured out the strengths and weaknesses of the players fully.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Who here in panic mode realizes that the Flames are playing a new system with a new coach and new goaltending?

And who here remembers what Dougie Hamilton looked like learning a new system?

Now who here feels embarrassed by their words in this thread?

I hate losing to the Oilers as much as the next guy, but some of these posts are pathetic.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Arrested development is such a great show hahahahaha.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Welp, pretty much the worst case scenario to start the season. Two losses against a bad team that is only mediocre due to McDavid.

Huge concerns about the coaching. How do you have your star players come out so flat to start the season? JG, Monahan, Hamilton etc. all look if not disinterested, completely off. Is the system really that hard that even these guys can't make it work? I don't buy it. The team looks very dysfunctional.

See this is what I mean. Johnny had a month off, has been with the team just 4 days. Mony is coming back from injury, their line mate is new and didn't play with us in the preseason.

I mean look at the positives, Chiasson has looked great, Frolik has been awesome to start, our PP looks ready to breakout, really both special teams have looked much much better if not still new.

It takes time to play a new system, we've played 120 minutes of the 4920 minutes in a season. Now is definitely not the time to be saying things like 'huge concerns with the coaching' or 'this team looks dysfunctional'

[GranteedEV]

There were the first eight games the defending champion Penguins played after Mike Sullivan came on board:



It took a lot of tweaking - systems, lines, and overall roster, for that same team to get to where it needed to be.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Pretty much every time I saw a big d-man wearing a twenty-number doing something good and I gave credit to Hamilton it turned out to be Engelland.

The apocalypse is upon us.

[frodo_t_baggins]

I remember when Brent sutter started as coach, the flames had one of the best starts in the league but after every game Brent was grumpy that they weren't playing his system probably. Once it came together, the season fell apart. Hopefully, it will be the complete opposite with gulutzan.

[taxbuster]

I'm at a loss for words. Flames looked hopelessly disorganized most of the time, with very few bright spots.

How long does it take highly-paid pros to "learn" a new system? Seems like the guys on Team Canada did it pretty quickly (sure - they're the best in the game, I get it).

But complete flailing around? Passes from deep at the other team's goal line back to the point missing by a country mile and forcing the Flames back to their own end on a PP is just not gonna cut it.

Charging around aimlessly on the PP trying to get free of a checker likewise will not work. It's like they still haven't figured out that the puck moves faster than they can (this harkens back to the Iggy era). Slow and flat-footed defense that simply looks out of place most of the time doesn't help either.

I'm disappointed in the effort, so the results speak from themselves. Suspect a spanking tonight from the stupid 'Nucks, too.

If we manage 2 Ws in our first 10 games, I'll be surprised. (BUF and maybe OTT; can't see any of the others possible they way they're playing.)

[IgiTang]

Thought Brodie was uncharacteristicly poor. His slide to block a pass when he just needed to put his stick in the lane was really silly and ended up being a goal.

The D had no speed out of the backend.

Team had no speed through the nuetral zone.

Johnny needs to quit whining when he doesn't get a call and get his ass back in the play.

Gio has been a bit of a dumpster fire with no wheels.

Tkachuk and Chiasson have been our most dangerous forwards offensively. That is not ok.

Bouma has done nothing but wasted minutes..