The 2016 US American Election Thread

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) alone has been a giant help to lower income families in the US for decades. My parents weren't low income, but my dad was self-employed, and thus full-market price insurance for us was out of reach. CHIP meant that my sisters and I had access to healthcare when otherwise the astronomical insurance/healthcare costs in the US would've left us without that care.

That's just one example that has helped millions of people.

Name me one single thing Trump has ever done that helped millions of people.

Health insurance is expensive, especially if you don't get coverage from an employer. Did the premiums keep going up like Obamacare? Do you support Obamacare?

Trump hasn't been involved in the government yet so...... I guess he's employed thousands of people, that's good, jobs are good.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Such as? What are my bizarre hatreds and weird obsessions? You don't ACTUALLY know anything about me.

I think the tide is turning, the political left is so completely out of control at the moment that people are finally sick of it. It might not be this election, but I can't see Shillary being re-elected if she manages to squeak in, being gifted running against a reality tv star rogue billionaire..... you really can't even write this stuff.

Literally the exact opposite of this is happening. David Brooks (conservative, by the way, so he should be on the GOP side of things) was on NPR this evening on my drive home, talking about how Trump is exposing the mess that is the GOP. This is not a problem that will easily solve itself. The GOP needs to cater to the Trump voters (anti-immigration, anti-trade, protectionist) in order to keep that non-college educated, working class white base, but that base, as a percentage of the population, is shrinking. If Trump pushes women out of that already limited base, the GOP doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. Evangelicals under the age of 60 are abandoning Trump, and many evangelical women are questioning the rest of the GOP that is still supporting him. If they lose young evangelicals and women, they drop their base down to a very loyal, but very, very small percentage of the population.

Democrats aren't perfect, but the GOP has pigeon-holed itself into a corner that ignores already decided rights for others (Roe v Wade, marriage equality, the civil rights movement), ignores science (climate change, insisting that conversion therapy works to de-gay-ify people), and ignores that Trickle Down economic policy has been a monumental failure. The US is getting more socially liberal, more ethnic, is over 50% female. Democrats aren't the party ignoring those facts.

[photon]

There's one good thing Trump has done...

33% increase in calls to a sexual assault hotline.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sexual-...ry?id=42805063

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Thus far the 'left' as you put it has managed to persuade the most conservative bigoted population in the western world that voting for a black guy twice and now a woman, and not just any woman but Hillary Friggin Clinton, was and is preferable than voting for your whack doodles on the right.

If you think that looks like the tide turning i suggest you never ever buy a boat.

LOL! Your virtue posturing is funny. Why does a candidates race, gender and economic background matter so much to you? Are you the real bigot? I judge people on their track records and the merits of their political platform, nothing else.

Listen to the language that you use, either you agree with my candidate, or your crazy. HAHAHA Are you aware how that comes across, it sounds fanatical. I'm at least open to peoples different opinions, why are you so closed minded in all of your self-righteousness?

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Health insurance is expensive, especially if you don't get coverage from an employer. Did the premiums keep going up like Obamacare? Do you support Obamacare?

Trump hasn't been involved in the government yet so...... I guess he's employed thousands of people, that's good, jobs are good.

My insurance went up every year before the ACA went into effect, that's not new, that's the nature of the game. It actually dropped the first two years of the ACA. I was growing up in the 90s, far before the ACA was even conceived, and insurance way back then was already obscenely expensive.

The ACA is intensely flawed, because what we should have is universal healthcare, but we couldn't make that work. But the ACA prevents people from going uninsured because of pre-existing conditions, and that alone has saved thousands of lives, so for all its faults, it's better than the system was before.

Trump also managed to leave hundreds of subcontractors out of luck when he went bankrupt, so just as many as he employed, he left high and dry. Not even close to a comparison.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

LOL! Your virtue posturing is funny. Why does a candidates race, gender and economic background matter so much to you? Are you the real bigot? I judge people on their track records and the merits of their political platform, nothing else.

Listen to the language that you use, either you agree with my candidate, or your crazy. HAHAHA Are you aware how that comes across, it sounds fanatical. I'm at least open to peoples different opinions, why are you so closed minded in all of your self-righteousness?

I don't think someone who doesn't judge based on gender would ever suggest that a Yale educated lawyer was only successful because of her husband.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Literally the exact opposite of this is happening. David Brooks (conservative, by the way, so he should be on the GOP side of things) was on NPR this evening on my drive home, talking about how Trump is exposing the mess that is the GOP. This is not a problem that will easily solve itself. The GOP needs to cater to the Trump voters (anti-immigration, anti-trade, protectionist) in order to keep that non-college educated, working class white base, but that base, as a percentage of the population, is shrinking. If Trump pushes women out of that already limited base, the GOP doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. Evangelicals under the age of 60 are abandoning Trump, and many evangelical women are questioning the rest of the GOP that is still supporting him. If they lose young evangelicals and women, they drop their base down to a very loyal, but very, very small percentage of the population.

Democrats aren't perfect, but the GOP has pigeon-holed itself into a corner that ignores already decided rights for others (Roe v Wade, marriage equality, the civil rights movement), ignores science (climate change, insisting that conversion therapy works to de-gay-ify people), and ignores that Trickle Down economic policy has been a monumental failure. The US is getting more socially liberal, more ethnic, is over 50% female. Democrats aren't the party ignoring those facts.

The GOP is a mess, the whole two party system in general is. The glaring thing is, if the people could vote to re-tool the two party system as an option, instead of electing candidate A or candidate B, they likely would. Sadly not an option.

The reason why people like Trump, is because he appears to be anti-establishment and something fresh, he's likely not in reality. I think the GOP is more likely to honor the constitution then the Democrats at this point. Unfortunately you are reduced to having to pick almost one or two single policies you like to back a candidate at this point, basing it on what you think they might or might not do.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Such as? What are my bizarre hatreds and weird obsessions? You don't ACTUALLY know anything about me.

I think the tide is turning, the political left is so completely out of control at the moment that people are finally sick of it. It might not be this election, but I can't see Shillary being re-elected if she manages to squeak in, being gifted running against a reality tv star rogue billionaire..... you really can't even write this stuff.

This is funny because the left is as right as Bush right now so much so that the real Left is mounting its own populist assaults on the establishment. I don't know if any party in the US is to the left of any Canadian government ever.

[GGG]

This appears to the Occulist Rift guy strategy of trolling. Come it and ####post to disrupt a conversation and piss people off. I'd suggest just ignoring the troll (I realize I'm responding to him to) until he posts sourced well reasoned arguments for his positions that

Clinton is a murderer and criminal
And has accomplished nothing but hitching her wagon to her husband.

Until such a time that these apparently mutually exclusive positions are explained no one should reply to him.

[Drak]

Agreed. No point in responding further.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

My insurance went up every year before the ACA went into effect, that's not new, that's the nature of the game. It actually dropped the first two years of the ACA. I was growing up in the 90s, far before the ACA was even conceived, and insurance way back then was already obscenely expensive.

The ACA is intensely flawed, because what we should have is universal healthcare, but we couldn't make that work. But the ACA prevents people from going uninsured because of pre-existing conditions, and that alone has saved thousands of lives, so for all its faults, it's better than the system was before.

Trump also managed to leave hundreds of subcontractors out of luck when he went bankrupt, so just as many as he employed, he left high and dry. Not even close to a comparison.

It goes up because their is no competition to keep prices down. Now they have mandated that everybody has to pay in and fine them if they don't pay, The people before that didn't have coverage because they couldn't afford it, now they have to pay for something expensive that they can't afford. It sounds like a good idea but doesn't work in reality.

I don't think the Canadian system is the one to follow.

The reality of business is it's competitive and sometimes things fold, it sucks for everybody involved. He's a ruthless and shrewd business man, I think the USA could use somebody like that at the reigns, over someone who will just continue to throw money at problems hoping they will get better and bailing out her corporate handlers.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by GGG

This is funny because the left is as right as Bush right now so much so that the real Left is mounting its own populist assaults on the establishment. I don't know if any party in the US is to the left of any Canadian government ever.

No kidding, were socialists, pretty much always have been. Thanks captain obvious!

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by GGG

This appears to the Occulist Rift guy strategy of trolling. Come it and ####post to disrupt a conversation and piss people off. I'd suggest just ignoring the troll (I realize I'm responding to him to) until he posts sourced well reasoned arguments for his positions that

Clinton is a murderer and criminal
And has accomplished nothing but hitching her wagon to her husband.

Until such a time that these apparently mutually exclusive positions are explained no one should reply to him.

http://www.choiceandtruth.com/2016/0...ssive-cia.html

Not that you will actually read in to any of it, you can just dismiss and move on, doesn't matter at the end of the day.

[calgarybornnraised]

I don't know if anyone noticed but Bernie Sanders and Ann Coulter are both on Real Time with Bill Maher tonight, should be entertaining.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

I don't know if anyone noticed but Bernie Sanders and Ann Coulter are both on Real Time with Bill Maher tonight, should be entertaining.

Posed against each other, or just sequentially?

If it's the latter, Bernie shouldn't stoop to that level. Coulter is a trashbag and an idiot.

[calgarybornnraised]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Posed against each other, or just sequentially?

If it's the latter, Bernie shouldn't stoop to that level. Coulter is a trashbag and an idiot.

Don't know, was just setting the pvr and saw the info for guests. I'm sure Bernie will be first, and then Ann on the panel?

[AltaGuy]

It's like Buster's id has been released.

[Illuminaughty]

Interesting concerning the "CHIP" program.

"The claim was quite specific… she “worked with Democrats and Republicans” and she was instrumental in “creating the Children’s Health Insurance Program.” On the first count, there isn’t a single Republican on record in the past nearly 20 years with any recollection of her “working with them.” And for the second part, Hillary Clinton was the First Lady at that time. She held no elected office and had no Constitutionally allowed duties involving the passage of legislation. Sure, she may have been in favor of it and perhaps even carped at her husband to get it passed, but that’s no more involvement than anyone else in the country who sent in a letter supporting the idea.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

http://www.choiceandtruth.com/2016/0...ssive-cia.html

Not that you will actually read in to any of it, you can just dismiss and move on, doesn't matter at the end of the day.

What is it about that site that makes you believe anything written on it? The top two tags on the right are literally "conspiracy" and conspiracy theory". You have to be trolling.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Interesting concerning the "CHIP" program.

"The claim was quite specific… she “worked with Democrats and Republicans” and she was instrumental in “creating the Children’s Health Insurance Program.” On the first count, there isn’t a single Republican on record in the past nearly 20 years with any recollection of her “working with them.” And for the second part, Hillary Clinton was the First Lady at that time. She held no elected office and had no Constitutionally allowed duties involving the passage of legislation. Sure, she may have been in favor of it and perhaps even carped at her husband to get it passed, but that’s no more involvement than anyone else in the country who sent in a letter supporting the idea.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/giv...dit-for-schip/
http://www.politifact.com/colorado/s...sanders-claim/

Hillary had significant involvement in Chip