Defensive pairings, how should we feel. - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Dion · 10-13-2016, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

The worst part was we were down by two with about 5 minutes left and Grossman was still seeing the ice.

Wouldn't it make more sense to shorten your bench and put Gio and Brodie or Hamilton out there together?

He can't keep up with the play. Give me Jyrki or someone like Kylington from the farm.

calgaryblood · 10-13-2016, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

The problem is really just Wideman. There's no where you can play him.

You put Brodie with Gio, then you have to put Wideman with Hamilton or Engelland, which kills both guys.

You put Wideman with Brodie, and you kill Brodie's puck rushing and offense.

The best place for Wideman is the pressbox, but that's a $5.5 million cap hit.

Maybe the Flames should put him in the pressbox until he's willing to waive his NMC and go to Stockton and "audition" there for other teams for trade this year or another contract next year.

He sucks, is slow, AND the refs hate him.

What could possibly go wrong?

868904 · 10-13-2016, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't like the new D pairings, I'm just saying in my eyes there were bigger reasons for the loss tonight.

..and yes I think the Flames were the better team in this game after the first period by quite a bit.

Reffing was just terrible, and so was Elliot.

those are reasons #1 and #2 for the loss as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you that the problem wasn't really the pairings.

The first goal against, bad giveaway by Grossman. That's not a problem with the pairing, that was just a bad play by Grossman. Believe it or not, Gio or Brodie or Hamilton have done that before too and they will do it again this year. Not a pairing or mismatch issue in the defensive end, just a bad play.

The second goal, sure you could say Grossman should have just put it on net, but the real culprit was that no forward was covering for him. If that was Brodie or Gio, no one complains about them doing that. Also, Elliot should have had that. Not a pairing or mismatch issue, failure by forwards to cover.

The third goal, bad line change, who's at fault for that? Not really a pairing or mismatch issue in the defensive end.

4th goal, bad bounce. Not a pairing or mismatch issue.

5th goal, paid off officials instructed to guarantee Oilers win. Not a pairing or mismatch issue.

6th goal, nice block and redirection by official to Oiler forward. Another crappy goal by Elliot. Again, not a pairing or mismatch issue.

The Flames really weren't hemmed in their zone much at all relative to last year. That suggests to me that the pairings and defensive coverage were not that bad.

Could those analytic folks tell us all about the possession stats? I would think the Flames won all those things.

JurassicTunga12 · 10-13-2016, 12:27 AM

^apparently the Flames had 56% possession tonight. So, I guess that's pretty good.

bigrangy · 10-13-2016, 12:28 AM

Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Wideman
Joki-Engelland

Gio-Hamilton, the all situations pairing, competent enough in the d-zone, dynamite in the o-zone

Brodie-Wideman, offensive zone push, since that's where Wideman does his best (and only) work. Brodie can be the responsible one and deserves some more offensive looks himself.

Joki-Engelland, attach them to Backlund. should be a low event, glass and out pairing. just trying to minimize the bad with this one.

868904 · 10-13-2016, 12:37 AM

I don't think the pairings tonight cost them the game, but I don't necessarily like them.

If you must play Wideman, then these are my pairings:

Gio-Brodie
Jokipakka-Hamilton
Brodie-Engelland

Wideman only plays the powerplay for obvious reasons. Also give him PK, where he can get hit with point shots and where his skating won't be an issue.

Don't give Brodie any PK to conserve him a bit.

Of course, the logical thing is to not play Wideman and go with:

Gio-Brodie (25 mins)
Jokipakka-Hamilton (25 mins)
Kulak-Engelland (10 mins)

Hell, I'd even be okay with Grossman-Engelland for minimal 3rd pairing duties and give them lots of PK time.

I mean you are paying Gio-Brodie-Hamilton over $15 million, they should each be logging at least 25 minutes a night.

GranteedEV · 10-13-2016, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

The problem is really just Wideman. There's no where you can play him.

Giordano-Hamilton
Brodie-Engelland
Kulak-Wideman

Giordano-Brodie
Jokipakka-Hamilton
Kulak-Wideman

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

Could those analytic folks tell us all about the possession stats? I would think the Flames won all those things.

5v5
CF% - CGY - 55.84%
xGF% - CGY - 42.06%

Oilers had the better chances (rush shots, in the slot etc), Flames had more shot attempts but were kept further to the outside.

In the long run, xGF% should trend towards CF% though. It's just a matter of tweaking some details.

Willi Plett · 10-13-2016, 01:19 AM

💩💩💩

gunnner · 10-13-2016, 01:32 AM

I remember thinking last year that Widemans deterioration in his game reminded me a lot of Wade Reddens. Between the ages of 31 and 33, the legs just went and he was not an NHL defenseman anymore. Rangers saw it and did the painful but best thing for the club. Ate the salary and sent him down.

People who think we should hang on to him so we can flip him at the deadline are being optimistic in my opinion.

Snuffleupagus · 10-13-2016, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnner

I remember thinking last year that Widemans deterioration in his game reminded me a lot of Wade Reddens. Between the ages of 31 and 33, the legs just went and he was not an NHL defenseman anymore. Rangers saw it and did the painful but best thing for the club. Ate the salary and sent him down.

People who think we should hang on to him so we can flip him at the deadline are being optimistic in my opinion.

NMC and 6 million other reasons = he's hanging around

gunnner · 10-13-2016, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

NMC and 6 million other reasons = he's hanging around

NMC means we cant send him down, but there is no point in showcasing him or hoping he plays out of it. Just move on. Sit him in the box every night. If its the difference of making the playoffs or not, make the tough call.

heep223 · 10-13-2016, 07:32 AM

Bad. We should feel very, very bad.

EldrickOnIce · 10-13-2016, 07:52 AM

As has been said several times... If this is the plan, you experiment in the preseason, not the season opening game.

polak · 10-13-2016, 09:45 AM

I don't get it, why can't we staple Wideman to the pressbox for the entire season?

Why do we HAVE to play him? He's terrible. Him and Grossman need to be sent on a mission to see how high a balloon carrying two people can go before it pops.

joejoe3 · 10-13-2016, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joejoe3

ironically, that was my exact reaction to the pairings last night.

Iniggywetrust · 10-13-2016, 09:49 AM

Spoiler!

Spoiler for size

JerryUnderscore · 10-13-2016, 10:02 AM

A couple things I'll mention:

1. Chicago lost last night 5-2 and I doubt anyone is saying they will miss the playoffs. It's only one game, let's not assume the sky is falling just yet.

2. I have no idea what Gulutzan is thinking, so I'm not going to pretend I do. It's possible he knows Kulak and Jokipakka are better defencemen than Grossmann, but he's unwilling to gift them a spot in the lineup.

One of the things we always criticize the Oilers for is a lack of accountability. Maybe he benched Joki and Kulak because he's wanted to see more effort. In which case, maybe he's willing to ice a subpar lineup in game one in order to show them what he expects.

It's like Burke refusing to trade Cammy away for a subpar return a few years ago. He would rather lose him for nothing and make the statement to the league that we're not losing trades.

Once again, I'm not going to say I know what Gully is thinking, but it's possible this was more of a statement to get those two younger defenders going rather than genuinely thinking Grossmann is the better option.

neo45 · 10-13-2016, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

1. Chicago lost last night 5-2 and I doubt anyone is saying they will miss the playoffs. It's only one game, let's not assume the sky is falling just yet.

Did their head coach pair Rosival and Kieth together and let their new starting goalie get shelled by the worst team ever?

GreenLantern2814 · 10-13-2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo45

Did their head coach pair Rosival and Kieth together and let their new starting goalie get shelled by the worst team ever?

I guarantee you, Elliott did not want to come out.

Gio-Brodie
George-Dougie
Kulak-Engelland
Wideman

Problems solved.

neo45 · 10-13-2016, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I guarantee you, Elliott did not want to come out.

The goalie never does but a good coach knows when. That fourth goal was when