My tolerance for imbeciles has been extremely low these past few weeks . I used to have immunity built up , but obviously there's a NEW STRAIN OUT THERE !!!!!!!!!!
I'm a very disappointed this team is already at a stage where they can't sign their best player because of salary cap issues. I was hoping Treliving would be a little better with salary cap management. When you consider the relative young ages of the team's best players and the amount of plugs in the bottom 6 forwards and bottom pairing defense it's alarming g to already be at the stage of salary cap trouble. IMO this is a black mark on the GM's record.
I disagree. When most of those deals were signed it looked like the Flames were in for a long rebuild. Management wanted to surround the young players they were drafting with decent NHLers, and not completely Oiler the team by feeding them to the wolves. They had to overpay for those players because they were UFAs. Could management have really anticipated that Monahan would be a 6 mil player on his second contract, Gaudreau would be a 7 mil player, Gio would play like a Norris candidate, and a young player of Hamilton's calibre would become available just before he reached RFA status?
Most of the deadweight will be off the roster before next season. The only long-term contracts that look dubious are Gio, and maybe Brouwer. This is a temporary bump on the cap road owing to the remarkably fast development of some young players into stars.
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If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 10-08-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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They can afford to spend on him, they don't want to over pay. Big difference.
No it's not. They are up against the cap regardless of Gaudreau getting $7 million or $8 million a season. The fact is this team has very little salary cap flexibility. I realize some money is coming off at the end of the season but Elliot will need a raise and guys like Bennett and Tkachuk will be likely getting huge raises in the coming seasons. The team was legitimately interested in bringing Russell back and it worries me that they will make a play for him this offseason as Treliving seems to have a penchant for overpaying depth players like Bouma, Engelland, Bollig, Raymond, etc. I'm lukewarm on the Frolik and Brouwer contracts as $8 million a season is a lot of money to tie up in two guys that are just good not great players. I'm not saying Treliving is a terrible GM or that he needs to be fired but I am hoping for some improvements in his salary cap management as this team isn't a cup contender and it's already up against the salary cap ceiling and that's worrisome.
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No it's not. They are up against the cap regardless of Gaudreau getting $7 million or $8 million a season. The fact is this team has very little salary cap flexibility. I realize some money is coming off at the end of the season but Elliot will need a raise and guys like Bennett and Tkachuk will be likely getting huge raises in the coming seasons. The team was legitimately interested in bringing Russell back and it worries me that they will make a play for him this offseason as Treliving seems to have a penchant for overpaying depth players like Bouma, Engelland, Bollig, Raymond, etc. I'm lukewarm on the Frolik and Brouwer contracts as $8 million a season is a lot of money to tie up in two guys that are just good not great players. I'm not saying Treliving is a terrible GM or that he needs to be fired but I am for some improvements in his salary cap management as this team isn't a cup contender and it's already up against the salary cap ceiling and that's worrisome.
For comparison purposes, the Penguins are paying Hornquist and Kunitz $8M a season. I see them as being similar to Brouwer and Frolik.
Cap hit is the average annual value over the entire contract. Doesn't matter what his actual salary is for this first year to fit under the cap, its the AAV which will exceed $6.633 if he's signing 7 or 8 years.
Ahh... thanks for clarification... this contract business confuses me at times.
For comparison purposes, the Penguins are paying Hornquist and Kunitz $8M a season. I see them as being similar to Brouwer and Frolik.
Should the Flames trade Monahan for a 2nd pairing defensemen because the Oilers traded Hall for one? The Penguins just won the cup while the Flames will be in tough to make the playoffs. Not apples to oranges as this team isn't a player or two away from winning the cup.
Should the Flames trade Monahan for a 2nd pairing defensemen because the Oilers traded Hall for one? The Penguins just won the cup while the Flames will be in tough to make the playoffs. Not apples to oranges as this team isn't a player or two away from winning the cup.
LOL, what?
I'm simply saying that I think those contracts are market value, that the Penguins just won a cup with similar guys, and that those two in particular may not support the point you are trying to make.
There are other cases where I agree with you that Treliving has overpaid (Bouma, Engelland), and it may hamper our ability to sign a good player down the road.
I don't know EE. I'm just not that worried about it. Here's the contracts coming off the books next summer:
Brandon Bollig
Sam Bennett
Michael Ferland
Alex Chiasson
Linden Vey
Dennis Wideman
Deryck Engelland
Jyrki Jokkipaka
Brian Elliott
Chad Johnson
(Additional Stockton contracts)
That's $17.76M coming off the books. And how many of those do we absolutely need to resign? Bennett and Elliott. Obviously we will also need to sign a backup goaltender and some other people to play those roles.
But let's assume we sign Elliott to 5x5 and Bennett to a similar contract to Monahan at $6.3 AAV
That's $11.3 of that $17.76M taken up, with $6.46M to fill those bottom roster spots (assuming we only have that in cap space available).
This year is obviously going to be tight, but I think we're okay going forward. Yeah, Tre made a couple bad signings with Engelland and Bollig, but I'm assuming he's learned his lesson there.
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For comparison purposes, the Penguins are paying Hornquist and Kunitz $8M a season. I see them as being similar to Brouwer and Frolik.
They do have the league's two best centres locked up forever at under 20 million as well. All the teams that have been successful lately have been underpaying their stars relative to their contributions.
Crosby at 8.7 is a steal.
Thornton and Vlasic are underpaid.
Kane and Toews were making less than 7 million in the years they won the cup. Keith doesn't even make 6 million.
Kopitar wasn't even making 7 million.
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Well it is thanksgiving weekend after all. I'm sure he left an offer for the Gaudreau camp to mull over. It appears the team will be starting the season without Johnny and it's going to become the game of seeing which camp blinks first.
They do have the league's two best centres locked up forever at under 20 million as well. All the teams that have been successful lately have been underpaying their stars relative to their contributions.
Crosby at 8.7 is a steal.
Thornton and Vlasic are underpaid.
Kane and Toews were making less than 7 million in the years they won the cup. Keith doesn't even make 6 million.
Kopitar wasn't even making 7 million.
Not to mention Toronto covering $1 million of Kessel's deal, Chicago's deal with Keith & Hossa's cap circumvention deal.
It appears as those winning requires the bargains of players out performing their contracts like never before.
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No it's not. They are up against the cap regardless of Gaudreau getting $7 million or $8 million a season. The fact is this team has very little salary cap flexibility. I realize some money is coming off at the end of the season but Elliot will need a raise and guys like Bennett and Tkachuk will be likely getting huge raises in the coming seasons. The team was legitimately interested in bringing Russell back and it worries me that they will make a play for him this offseason as Treliving seems to have a penchant for overpaying depth players like Bouma, Engelland, Bollig, Raymond, etc. I'm lukewarm on the Frolik and Brouwer contracts as $8 million a season is a lot of money to tie up in two guys that are just good not great players. I'm not saying Treliving is a terrible GM or that he needs to be fired but I am hoping for some improvements in his salary cap management as this team isn't a cup contender and it's already up against the salary cap ceiling and that's worrisome.
The reason why the team is so close to the cap is because of young players progressing faster than projected, a 4th round pick turning into a superstar and paying good players fair value. Yes there are a few players signed to contracts way over their worth (looking at you stajan and bouma) but they needed those to get to the cap floor. Next year a lot of the cap problems will resolve themselves with contracts coming off the books. We are in an enviable position.
The reason why the team is so close to the cap is because of young players progressing faster than projected, a 4th round pick turning into a superstar and paying good players fair value. Yes there are a few players signed to contracts way over their worth (looking at you stajan and bouma) but they needed those to get to the cap floor. Next year a lot of the cap problems will resolve themselves with contracts coming off the books. We are in an enviable position.
So , it looks like Gaudreau will be sitting out this season
The reason why the team is so close to the cap is because of young players progressing faster than projected, a 4th round pick turning into a superstar and paying good players fair value. Yes there are a few players signed to contracts way over their worth (looking at you stajan and bouma) but they needed those to get to the cap floor. Next year a lot of the cap problems will resolve themselves with contracts coming off the books. We are in an enviable position.
Many teams have players progressing at a rate the Flames are as we are only talking about Monahan and Gaudreau here and two players is nothing relatively earth shattering. As has been noted only $18 million is coming off the cap and a sizeable portion of that money will go into re-signing a goaltender or two as well as Bennett so that money will dry up fast.
