[Signing] Oilers sign Kris Russell (1 yr, ~$3.1 mil)

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

PS If Hall , a toe dragger of the highest order, is a huge loss than Colbourne (2nd highest scoring winger on the Flames) would be a have to be rated as a significant loss to the Flames.

Replacing Hall and Yak and Schultz with Lucic and Maroon and Larsson is a drastic change in style and attitude.

Larsson is a big guy that dishes out hits at a higher rate as Engelland except plays 22 minutes/game Kinda figure that he might be out the last 10 minutes of the oiler being up by a goal.

Ok, I've seen it all now. Compairing the loss of Colborne to the loss of Hall is ludicris.

Comparing Larsson to Engelland is kind of crazy, considering the role responsibility is completely different. Its more logical to compare Larsson to probably Gio or Brodie if your basing things on a 20 + minute a game defenseman. And BTW hits are such a silly subjective stat.

[heep223]

Has Ricardow ever actually acknowledged and responded to the criticisms of the +\- statistic? He seems to depend on that and TOI to make the vast majority of his arguments but then doesn't address any responses pointing out the glaring issues with both.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Not to mention that the two previous years Lucic was playing with Bergeron and Marchand: Two of the most impressive +/- players over that time. He's always had the benefit of having good line mates.

He played with Iginla and Krejci 3 seasons ago ... when the 36 year old iginla had his best +/- in his career. by far... after 5 years of weak defense negative +/-

then 2 years ago Lucic was +13, Bergeron +2, Marchand +5 and soon to be Flame Hamilton was -3. Lucic played on a line with Krejci and Pasternak.


you were just making stuff up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

PS If Hall , a toe dragger of the highest order, is a huge loss then Colbourne (2nd highest scoring winger on the Flames) would be a have to be rated as a significant loss ...

Hall is basically a shorter, higher scoring, faster Colborne.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by heep223

Has Ricardow ever actually acknowledged and responded to the criticisms of the +\- statistic? He seems to depend on that and TOI to make the vast majority of his arguments but then doesn't address any responses pointing out the glaring issues with both.

the +/- is the only accurate advanced stat there is . It takes in account actual events... goals, all other advanced stats takes into account judges events, shots on goal, block shots, shots directed to goal..... all that are open to interpretation.


The whole concept behind advanced stats (Corsi etc) to to generate enough events to make it statistically relevant... however weak base input data is.

this is sort of like using robocalls for surveys (less accurate results gotten fast and cheap) rather than in person interviews.


I have never seen a coach or player argue about the accuracy of calling a dump in a missed shot.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by heep223

Has Ricardow ever actually acknowledged and responded to the criticisms of the +\- statistic? He seems to depend on that and TOI to make the vast majority of his arguments but then doesn't address any responses pointing out the glaring issues with both.

How dare you? +/- is infallible.

[Point Blank]

Trollcardow strikes again

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

the +/- is the only accurate advanced stat there is . It takes in account actual events... goals, all other advanced stats takes into account judges events, shots on goal, block shots, shots directed to goal..... all that are open to interpretation.


The whole concept behind advanced stats (Corsi etc) to to generate enough events to make it statistically relevant... however weak base input data is.

this is sort of like using robocalls for surveys (less accurate results gotten fast and cheap) rather than in person interviews.


I have never seen a coach or player argue about the accuracy of calling a dump in a missed shot.

This is literally the opposite of reality.

+/- is heavily influenced by QoT and random luck. It is so useless. Incredibly useless

[FBI]

Also why is Ricardo defending Edmonton?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ok, I've seen it all now. Compairing the loss of Colborne to the loss of Hall is ludicris.

Comparing Larsson to Engelland is kind of crazy, considering the role responsibility is completely different. Its more logical to compare Larsson to probably Gio or Brodie if your basing things on a 20 + minute a game defenseman. And BTW hits are such a silly subjective stat.

agree that hits is subjective.... but look and rank who is the tougher defenseman Engelland, Brodie or Gio..... just happens to have a high correlation with hits.

Trying to make a more valid comparison ... Larsson is the closest thing to a 23 year old Regher that either the Oilers or Flames have had since 2004.

If we had Larrson he would almost always be on the Ice when Lucic was on.

He will get a lot of ice against Brouwer-Bennett-Tkachuk.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FBI

Also why is Ricardo defending Edmonton?

just trying to provide balance..... Make the beating of the Oilers worthwhile.

There was just too much of the Flames just have to show up and collect 2 pts

[devo22]

I honestly don't see a Regehr type of defender in Larsson, but maybe that's just me. But in any case, it'll be interesting to see what he can do without Andy Greene.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

the +/- is the only accurate advanced stat there is . It takes in account actual events... goals, all other advanced stats takes into account judges events, shots on goal, block shots, shots directed to goal..... all that are open to interpretation.





The whole concept behind advanced stats (Corsi etc) to to generate enough events to make it statistically relevant... however weak base input data is.



this is sort of like using robocalls for surveys (less accurate results gotten fast and cheap) rather than in person interviews.





I have never seen a coach or player argue about the accuracy of calling a dump in a missed shot.

So how do you reconcile this to the fact that some of the best players in the league are minus players?

[timbit]

When a Blue Jays left fielder drops a fly ball, do the other 8 defensive players receive an error?
Plus minus is a stat that reveals very little as to the defensive or offensive strengths of a player.
If you play big minutes on a top team, you will generally be a significantly plus player .
Big minutes on a poor team , generally a significantly minus player

Yes there are some exceptions that can be cherry picked.
A very flawed stat.

[sureLoss]

[dash_pinched]

^

Well, we are getting close to Halloween.

[TBone290]

Poor Russell

[getbak]

Yuck.

[Jacks]

Takes some mental gymnastics to be a greaser fan.

"So really we got Larsson and Lucic for Hall, I'd call that a win"
No, you could have had Lucic anyway, you didn't trade Hall for Lucic and Larsson.

"We essentially traded Yak for Russell, I'm ok with that"
No, you could have had Russell anyway, you didn't trade Yak for Russell.

"We let Yak go and brought in Russell, if he plays great we'll re-sign him, if not we'll flip him at the deadline for a 2nd. So essentially we got at least a 2nd and a 3rd for Yak, maybe to 2nd's!"
No no no

Actually this could be fun. Essentially we traded Colborne and a 2nd for Brouwer, Elliot and Johnson, best trade evah!

[The Professor]

This is great in every way. I know he was a warrior for us two years ago, but I just don't think he's that good. Looking forward to playing against him. Glad we didn't sign him.