[Rumour] TSN: Flames 1 of 4 teams left on Kris Russell. Smid maybe moved for cap flexibility - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Flash Walken · 10-06-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoller

Why would we trade Smid when we can just put him on LTIR when the season starts and sign Russell after that?

lots of cap details but suffice to say it's much much easier to deal with the cap if he isn't there vs. on ltir.

Strange Brew · 10-06-2016, 05:37 PM

I am all for bringing in Russell but if we have to give up assets to do so then no way.

I don't buy that 4 teams are in on him either. Not at this stage. Maybe 4 teams have expressed some interest but I bet he does not have one solid offer.

Monahan For Mayor · 10-06-2016, 05:42 PM

Ugh...

Par · 10-06-2016, 05:43 PM

First sign Johnny, put Smid on LTIR and give one of the kids a chance.

Zoller · 10-06-2016, 05:49 PM

From what I understood if we are at the cap limit when we put Smid on LTIR we get all of his contract in cap relief. It would just be a matter of shuffling bodies around to get to the top of the cap at the start of the season. Doesn't seem so difficult.
I fail to see the benefit of losing assets when we don't have to.

Zoller · 10-06-2016, 05:50 PM

Double post

sureLoss · 10-06-2016, 05:50 PM

To be fair McKenzie did emphasize that there was no guarantee that the Flames would move Smid.

Could be typical Treliving just exploring all his options.

locsofblu · 10-06-2016, 05:52 PM

Please no!

GranteedEV · 10-06-2016, 05:54 PM

I just hope Kulak shows tonight he is a better short and long term solution than Russell.

MarkGio · 10-06-2016, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Really makes me apprehensive about how much it may end up costing the Flames to move Smid's contract. I am thinking - based on Kotalik's trade that Feaster made - that the ballpark value would be that of a 2nd round pick, but maybe more expensive now.

That's different. Kotalik was to be paid by the team to sit around, plus hit cap hit was absorbed. Smid is paid by insurance and his cap hit is LTIR

Alberta_Beef · 10-06-2016, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't get this continued Russell rumour. The Flames have no need for him.

I respectfully disagree. If the Flames are not confident in Wotherspoon or Kulak then there is a need for a #7. You also can't focus too much on a good player being a number #7 because in the grand scheme of a season the #7 plays quite a bit. Last year 70 games were played by defensemen outside of the regular top 6 for the Flames, the year prior to that is was 63. Seeing the #7 play 50+ games is a likely possibility.

dustygoon · 10-06-2016, 06:16 PM

Who is kidding who. Russell is waiting on gaudreau.

Caged Great · 10-06-2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't get this continued Russell rumour. The Flames have no need for him.

Yes we do. A 2 year deal would be perfect for expansion team exposure, and we need a #4. Currently the Flames have 3 top pairing D-men, and three bottom pairing D-men (Jokipakka, Wideman, Engelland). All things considered, Russell is a decent #4. He would make the team better.

If it's cheap enough, why not?

Cycling76er · 10-06-2016, 06:31 PM

Can we just move on from this already...

TheScorpion · 10-06-2016, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Yes we do. A 2 year deal would be perfect for expansion team exposure, and we need a #4. Currently the Flames have 3 top pairing D-men, and three bottom pairing D-men (Jokipakka, Wideman, Engelland). All things considered, Russell is a decent #4. He would make the team better.

If it's cheap enough, why not?

I might have to disagree with you on this one. I think that we could consider Jokipakka a good enough #4 for this team. He seems to be able to fit right in.

I guess if the Flames can find a way to make this all fit under the cap, I'm all for it. Until then... I'm skeptical.

getbak · 10-06-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoller

From what I understood if we are at the cap limit when we put Smid on LTIR we get all of his contract in cap relief. It would just be a matter of shuffling bodies around to get to the top of the cap at the start of the season. Doesn't seem so difficult.
I fail to see the benefit of losing assets when we don't have to.

With LTIR, you can only replace the value of the contract at any moment in time and you don't accumulate any unused cap space for later. If you have real cap space, you can use the full value of that space at any time to acquire the remaining portion of a player's salary, so it essentially gains value as the season progresses.

If you have $3 million in LTIR space to start the season, you can only ever use that to add $3 million in contracts over the season. If you have $3 million in actual cap space at the start of the season and don't use it, you could add about $12 million in contract value at the deadline (when there's only about 25% of the season left).

Alberta_Beef · 10-06-2016, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I might have to disagree with you on this one. I think that we could consider Jokipakka a good enough #4 for this team. He seems to be able to fit right in.

I guess if the Flames can find a way to make this all fit under the cap, I'm all for it. Until then... I'm skeptical.

The guy is a 3rd year NHLer that has never played more than 60 games in a season due to either being in the minors or being the #7 defenseman and you think because of 18 games down the stretch that he should be penciled in and thrust into the #4 role? No NHL team wanting to make the playoffs should be comfortable with that.

Geeoff · 10-06-2016, 06:40 PM

I think Russell probably already has a deal in place with the Flames or another team that's waiting for LTIR relief. Just won't be able to officially announce it until the season starts.

Strange Brew · 10-06-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The guy is a 3rd year NHLer that has never played more than 60 games in a season due to either being in the minors or being the #7 defenseman and you think because of 18 games down the stretch that he should be penciled in and thrust into the #4 role? No NHL team wanting to make the playoffs should be comfortable with that.

I don't always agree with Alberta Beef but he has a point here. Some fans are willing to put a lot of faith in Jokipakkas play at end of season but are very dismissive of how Colborne excelled at end of year.

I am glad Jokipakka is here but need to see more before he is a sure fire top 4.

GranteedEV · 10-06-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Yes we do. A 2 year deal would be perfect for expansion team exposure, and we need a #4. Currently the Flames have 3 top pairing D-men, and three bottom pairing D-men (Jokipakka, Wideman, Engelland). All things considered, Russell is a decent #4. He would make the team better.

Russell is a decent #4 in the exact same sense Wideman and Jokipakka are decent #4s - none of the three look out of place being carried by a strong partner (like Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton) but none is an Alec Martinez or Paul Martin who is going to be a #4 on every team in the league.

Is Russell better than Jokipakka? We had better results defensively last year with Jokipakka IMO. Scoring might favor Russell but I thought that was more because of the absence of Hudler. Even if Russell is better - I don't think the gap is large enough to justify any high cost.

As for Wideman V Russell, it's interesting. A Brodie/Wideman second pair or a Russell/Hamilton second pair. Wideman is a lot more useful if Brodie can cover for him if you ask me due to his offense. He may be slow, but he can still generate offense. Which for a team like ours with an average forward core and excellent goaltending, is likely to make a big difference.

Quote:

If it's cheap enough, why not?

Because
1) Cheap " for a #4 " could still be expensive and difficult to move for a #5 and there is a real risk that he will be supplanted as a #4. He has yet to show he is a true #4. Do I want to believe he could be in the right system? Sure. He has not proven it yet. He has proven he has aspects that resemble a #4 and aspects that resemble a #5.

2) As an addendum to the above, given the "way" we want to play, I am not convinced he even is an upgrade as #5 on Kulak or Kylington who will both be much more sheltered in a system like this, making their strengths more valuable . The last time he played on a team that played an aggressive style was with the Blues, and he quickly fell down the depth chart to #6/#7 status.

3) The "giving up assets to move Smid" bit makes me nervous. I like Russell but I am not willing to give up significant assets to reacquire him given the risk that he continues to be a possession black hole.