Alberta Politics Thread

[Resolute 14]

The feds have tried to roll various departments, including IT, into a new agency called Shared Services Canada. It has been a disaster.

Contracting out your linen cleaning services makes sense. Contracting out core needs often does not.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I don't have a ton of time to look into it but I'm (actually ) seeing 34.8 billion over 5 years (at least that's what the Alberta.ca site shows). For giggles I grabbed some numbers for a few years back.

http://www.finance.alberta.ca/public...n-spending.pdf

http://globalnews.ca/news/1192585/al...d-2014-budget/

2010: $20.1 billion over 3 years ($6.7/year)

2014 before the NDP: $19 billion over 3 years ($6.3/year)

NDP 2016: ($6.96/year)

So they're basically keeping the spending materially unchanged. The $11 billion in overspending this year isn't due to a massive ramp up in infrastructure or stimulus spending, it's basically this historical ongoing cost we've been spending this whole time.

Additionally, I'm not saying the 5 year number was picked on purpose to be deceiving though it does inflate the total.


EDIT: Though I could be wrong, are you saying that they are spending an additional $37 billion on top of that isn't listed on the Alberta 2016 Budget page summary? Perhaps I'm missing that somewhere.

No, we're using the same numbers. I just added $2 billion in green energy capital investment as well. Don't really disagree with your conclusions either except to suggest that maintaining capital investment at the same level despite a significant decline in revenues could arguably be characterized as stimulus or at least a relative increase in investment.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Makarov

No, we're using the same numbers. I just added $2 billion in green energy capital investment as well. Don't really disagree with your conclusions either except to suggest that maintaining capital investment at the same level despite a significant decline in revenues could arguably be characterized as stimulus or at least a relative increase in investment.

Absolutely and as of the 1st Q budget update the Capital Plan was forecast at 8.7B for this year. Definitely stimulus.

[Tron_fdc]

Word is with most of my clients (all bridge/roadbuilders) is the majority of the work going out right now is being won by out of province companies.

I'm no tax guru, but if a company from Ontario works in Alberta but declares profits in Ontario, they aren't paying Ab PST or hiring local Ab employees. Maybe a tax guy can confirm that?

All word of mouth of course, but my guys are sloooooooow right now with all this "infrastructure" spending supposedly going on.

[Weitz]

Didn't the Notley government give a big fort mac rebuild project to an Ontario company?

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I'm on your side in this but just wondering how someone can be more or less severely middle class? You mean dead center of bell curve or what?

Originally Posted by Locke

Perhaps hes just a very authoritative guy.

Ha, definately not an authoritative guy! What I mean is I consider myself very middle class. Married,2 kids, a couple of pets, live in an average size house, average family income, trying to put a few bucks away for retirement etc. I don't know where I fit on the bell curve but I don't consider myself to be wealthy or at the upper end of the middle class and we're not at the lower end either. Just an average family trying to get by.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Word is with most of my clients (all bridge/roadbuilders) is the majority of the work going out right now is being won by out of province companies.

I'm no tax guru, but if a company from Ontario works in Alberta but declares profits in Ontario, they aren't paying Ab PST or hiring local Ab employees. Maybe a tax guy can confirm that?

All word of mouth of course, but my guys are sloooooooow right now with all this "infrastructure" spending supposedly going on.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Didn't the Notley government give a big fort mac rebuild project to an Ontario company?

From what I understand they are tendering all the projects, which is fine EXCEPT when Ab roadbuilders try to go into different provinces.

BC has some goofy law that you have to pay GST on the equipment cost to move it in and work in BC (or maybe PST, I don't remember) and from what I can tell it's to protect BC workers from someone else coming into their province, making a bunch of money, paying no PST, and leaving.

Alberta has no such law. In fact, when things went south in 09 in the states, we (Ab) saw all kinds of US companies up here bidding (and winning) on tenders.

IMO you need to level the playing field to make sure you don't have out of province crews coming in with some type of competitive advantage, or applying the same rules to their equipment when it comes to work in Ab.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

lol

freudian slip?

Oops.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Does anyone else think we are headed for a massive Progressive Conservative win in 2019?

We know what the NDP is like, and folks seem to think the WRP are the boogeymen and are going to somehow ban abortion and layoff every teacher in the province.

Just like the Federal Liberals went from third to first, I am starting to think that the PC's go from third to first. NDP opposition, and the WRP is going to be third.

[Violator]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The feds have tried to roll various departments, including IT, into a new agency called Shared Services Canada. It has been a disaster.

Contracting out your linen cleaning services makes sense. Contracting out core needs often does not.

Contracting out core needs makes sense if you have proper oversight and the same quality service.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Does anyone else think we are headed for a massive Progressive Conservative win in 2019?

We know what the NDP is like, and folks seem to think the WRP are the boogeymen and are going to somehow ban abortion and layoff every teacher in the province.

Just like the Federal Liberals went from third to first, I am starting to think that the PC's go from third to first. NDP opposition, and the WRP is going to be third.

I'm actually really looking forward to the rabbit that Notley plans on pulling out of her hat immediately prior to the next election.

It should be a doozy.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Does anyone else think we are headed for a massive Progressive Conservative win in 2019?

I'd have to assume, but my biggest fear is that the WRP and the PCs split the vote and the NDP get back in

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Does anyone else think we are headed for a massive Progressive Conservative win in 2019?

We know what the NDP is like, and folks seem to think the WRP are the boogeymen and are going to somehow ban abortion and layoff every teacher in the province.

Just like the Federal Liberals went from third to first, I am starting to think that the PC's go from third to first. NDP opposition, and the WRP is going to be third.

I don't think NDP even comes in as the opposition. Rural Alberta will continue to vote for the WRP which will be enough to stay where they are. The NDP will get steamrolled by the PC's in the cities, especially if the Liberals can build any sort of party to split whatever NDP vote is still there.

[puckedoff]

The NDP will win again. Nobody will vote to bite the hand that feeds, and of course we'll all be on the dole by then.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Are there things that can be done to improve the situation? Absolutely and I think people gloss over how much work the NDPs have done to consolidate the non-government agencies and attacking the unsustainable wages by their CEOs and executives. The costs of AER executives now are astronomical compared to what they were being paid for the same work while direct government employees. That's the waste that needs to, and is being focused on.

Cutting executive salaries is window-dressing. Those high salaries outrage people, and no doubt the PCs filled the ranks will all kinds of cronyism. But in the overall scheme of the provincial budget, the dollars are negligible.

Alberta government operating expenses - made up largely of salaries of rank and file workers - have been extremely high compared to other places in the developed world for the last 10-15 years.

The only reason workers of all kinds in Alberta made far more their counterparts in Manitoba, Ohio, Wales, or New Zealand was because of energy revenues. That money has dried up. Time for everyone - private and public - to come back to earth.

Just as Alberta has room to raise taxes and still have low tax rates compared to other constituencies, there's room to cut public sector compensation and still have relatively high compensation. It's not as though teachers and nurses are going to flood back to New Brunswick to make $53k a year.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

From what I understand they are tendering all the projects, which is fine EXCEPT when Ab roadbuilders try to go into different provinces.

BC has some goofy law that you have to pay GST on the equipment cost to move it in and work in BC (or maybe PST, I don't remember) and from what I can tell it's to protect BC workers from someone else coming into their province, making a bunch of money, paying no PST, and leaving.

Alberta has no such law. In fact, when things went south in 09 in the states, we (Ab) saw all kinds of US companies up here bidding (and winning) on tenders.

IMO you need to level the playing field to make sure you don't have out of province crews coming in with some type of competitive advantage, or applying the same rules to their equipment when it comes to work in Ab.

It's difficult when it comes to these projects though. We should have them open for tender, and really if companies from elsewhere are winning with cheaper bids and the like should we hire locally and pay more? Its a fine line between the obvious need to get local companies and people working and not spending taxpayers borrowed money recklessly to do so. I have no experience in that area, so I can't add anything of value here, but how do you balance those two?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Cutting executive salaries is window-dressing. Those high salaries outrage people, and no doubt the PCs filled the ranks will all kinds of cronyism. But in the overall scheme of the provincial budget, the dollars are negligible.

Alberta government operating expenses - made up largely of salaries of rank and file workers - have been extremely high compared to other places in the developed world for the last 10-15 years.

The only reason workers of all kinds in Alberta made far more their counterparts in Manitoba, Ohio, Wales, or New Zealand was because of energy revenues. That money has dried up. Time for everyone - private and public - to come back to earth.

Just as Alberta has room to raise taxes and still have low tax rates compared to other constituencies, there's room to cut public sector compensation and still have relatively high compensation. It's not as though teachers and nurses are going to flood back to New Brunswick to make $53k a year.

Salary comparisons must be normalized for the cost of living in each jurisdiction.

Until a meaningful adjustment occurs to bring the cost of living here in line with the jurisdictions you mention, comparing to those other jurisdictions is fallacious and misleading.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Salary comparisons must be normalized for the cost of living in each jurisdiction.

Until a meaningful adjustment occurs to bring the cost of living here in line with the jurisdictions you mention, comparing to those other jurisdictions is fallacious and misleading.

Exactly. People love to cry how our public sector is the most expensive, highest per capita, etc. It is all true. What is ignored though is that when you compare the median wage of a public servant, say a teacher, compared to the median wage in Alberta it is on par or lower than other jurisdictions. Teacher pay compared to median wage in Alberta is slightly more than say BC, but is less than Ontario.

Until costs come down and median wages come down we are not overpaying for our public service anymore than companies are overpaying for an accounting clerk compared to what they make in New Brunswick.

Alberta still has the highest weekly wages in the country, and yes I understand unemployment is higher right now but anything less than double digits isn't a full blown crisis. It's normal life in any Atlantic province.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Exactly. People love to cry how our public sector is the most expensive, highest per capita, etc. It is all true. What is ignored though is that when you compare the median wage of a public servant, say a teacher, compared to the median wage in Alberta it is on par or lower than other jurisdictions. Teacher pay compared to median wage in Alberta is slightly more than say BC, but is less than Ontario.

Until costs come down and median wages come down we are not overpaying for our public service anymore than companies are overpaying for an accounting clerk compared to what they make in New Brunswick.

Alberta still has the highest weekly wages in the country, and yes I understand unemployment is higher right now but anything less than double digits isn't a full blown crisis. It's normal life in any Atlantic province.

Does that include the pensions and benefits for the public sector? I'm genuinely asking here because I don't know and not trying to be difficult.