Toronto Blue Jays vs Baltimore Orioles - ALWC

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The defense of starting the 9th with Brach would have been "I have three relievers I trust and I wanted to extend them for as long as possible in case we don't score until the 15th". That would have made sense. But that excuse goes out the window when you pick O'Day over Britton and goes into the dumpster below the window when you pick anyone else next. He was playing for the save and that's wrong.

And even more so when you need two outs and are facing some combination of Bautista, EE, and Martin and need ground balls and Britton has an 80% ground ball rate and if a fly ball is it your season is over.

There is no next inning when you have a guy on 3rd and are against the blue jays best batters.

Its amazing that with all of the statistical analysis in baseball that has been proven to work closers are terribly mis mananged.

[tvp2003]

Was Britton even up throwing in the 11th? I think I heard that he was up earlier in the game, but obviously sat back down when it wasn't called in. With the two quick hits by Travis and Donaldson, I suspect Britton wasn't even an option to come in to pitch to EE (or Bautista if they decided to intentionally walk EE again).

[Hockey]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Was Britton even up throwing in the 11th? I think I heard that he was up earlier in the game, but obviously sat back down when it wasn't called in. With the two quick hits by Travis and Donaldson, I suspect Britton wasn't even an option to come in to pitch to EE (or Bautista if they decided to intentionally walk EE again).

Only time I saw him warming up in the bullpen was in the top of the 9th. Then once they didn't get any runs they sat him back down.

[GGG]

They warmed him up 3 times.

With the heart of the blue jays order due up he needs to be ready.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Personally think the biggest mistake was not walking Edwin. Get the double play in order for Bautista, who's been a weaker hitter than EE this year.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Even with his struggles, I'm not sure you want to hand Bautista a second chance to end the game after you got him the first time around. Especially since an IBB with a pitcher struggling to find control often results in 2-0/3-1 counts as they lose the strike zone.

If you do walk EE, you absolutely need to bring Britton in for Bautista.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Personally think the biggest mistake was not walking Edwin. Get the double play in order for Bautista, who's been a weaker hitter than EE this year.

I will preface this by saying I am not a huge baseball guy, but this was my thought as well.

Althoguh Bautista had hit the dinger earlier.

I generally dislike the pace of baseball, but it certainly lends itself to lots of drama which can be nicely framed by a tv broadcaster

[edslunch]

I'm looking for a replay of the whole bottom on the 11th. I was multi-tasking on a conference call while watching and want to see it again. Forgot to PVR it :-(

[Jiggy_12]

All I know is if this was reversed and Gibbons had left Osuna sitting in that pen, we would be calling for his head.

Absolutely the wrong move by Showalter - and it couldn't have happened to a better guy.

[Galakanokis]

The double play was already in order when Edwin was hitting, Donaldson on 1st with Travis at 3rd. I thought it best to walk Edwin as well but there really was no advantage to it for the Orioles unless you think he was a better hitter than Jose that night. If I recall correctly Edwin was 0-3 or 4 that night.

leaving Britton out was curious but I don't think it was a completely terrible idea. Orioles get the lead and they bring him in Showalter looks like a genius. Bring him in still tied and he gasses after two innings and loses and he's crucified.

Any which way you shake it it was a great game. The walk off HR was epic.

[Jason14h]

The double play was already in order when Edwin was hitting, Donaldson on 1st with Travis at 3rd. I thought it best to walk Edwin as well but there really was no advantage to it for the Orioles unless you think he was a better hitter than Jose that night. If I recall correctly Edwin was 0-3 or 4 that night.

You put a play at home on a lightly hit grounder. You can also pitch Edwin down and away, hope he rolls over, and if he doesn't bite he walks. Doesn't have to be truely intentional walk

leaving Britton out was curious but I don't think it was a completely terrible idea. Orioles get the lead and they bring him in Showalter looks like a genius. Bring him in still tied and he gasses after two innings and loses and he's crucified.

You are facing 2 of the best power hitters in the game, with the game on the line, and a runner at 3rd with 1 out. It is terrible to leave you best pitcher on the bench.

Why would he be crucified if Britton get's out of the situation, and they loose 2 innings later? Heck, you could argue just facing the top of the order he should have used Britton, since I personally would rather have my lesser pitchers facing the bottom of the order the next 2 innings.

[Jason14h]

Fun read on when Britton, the best pitcher in MLB, should have been used if it wasn't for the silly "closer" perception

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...wild-card-loss

[Cecil Terwilliger]

That was a really good read.


hahaha

Brian Duensing is so good that, at age 33 this season, he threw more innings for the Kansas City Royals' Triple-A affiliate than he did for a major-league team. He's the guy you come up with when you're trying to make a joke about a generic reliever who probably retired four years ago. He pitched in this game instead of Britton.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Fun read on when Britton, the best pitcher in MLB, should have been used if it wasn't for the silly "closer" perception

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...wild-card-loss

It's so true. That old school "managing to the save" mentality is so dumb, and it cost the Orioles in the biggest way. I'm glad it happened.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Absolutely the wrong move by Showalter - and it couldn't have happened to a better guy.

Yeah, completely indefensible.

To be fair I wouldn't have had Britton out there for the 11th... because I would have used him in the 9th. I mean the 9th inning was just as high leverage (if not more) as the 11th in terms of upcoming batter skill. Put Britton out there for the 9th and 10th inning and look you have an O'Day available to pitch. O'Day vs Ubaldo? Not a contest.

Personally think the biggest mistake was not walking Edwin. Get the double play in order for Bautista, who's been a weaker hitter than EE this year

At that point it wouldn't have made a difference. Anything deep wins the game and I don't think Jose is any more apt to hit the ball into the dirt then Edwin (and Jose would have crushed that meatball that Edwin hit out of the park... right in the sweet spot for a pull hitter like Jose)

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Even with his struggles, I'm not sure you want to hand Bautista a second chance to end the game after you got him the first time around. Especially since an IBB with a pitcher struggling to find control often results in 2-0/3-1 counts as they lose the strike zone.

If you do walk EE, you absolutely need to bring Britton in for Bautista.

The other issue if you intentionally walk EE, there is no bases for Bautista - just in case. You don't want to walk JB with the bases loaded to lose the game. You have to pitch to him, meaning there will be something JB could push into the OF.

Even if the Orioles asked Ubaldo to pitch around EE, that dude was wild last night. Those first to pitches said it all. Chin music to travis followed by a hanging curve. He could've been trying to pitch around, and just failed.

Im not sure if Britton was up in the 11th. I thought the mound call was buying time, so who knows if Britton would've been ready (should've been up earlier)

[habernac]

Bluebird Banter ‏@bluebirdbanter 9m9 minutes ago
Watching the game again, I wonder why they didn't show us Pickles Bar after Edwin's homer?

[Inferno]

The Blue Jays statement on last night's incident.

[corporatejay]

Dear Fans:

Here's an overfilled cup with no lid because of some ####wad fan.

Sincerely,

Blue Jays

[Madman]

[Dion]

Matt Ufford
@mattufford good shot of Buck Showalter's press conference pic.twitter.com/VBxIIha98C

9:21 PM - 4 Oct 2016