Matthew Tkachuk, Does he make the team.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Depends what you mean by complimentary. Seems like some people see that as a knock or a negative. IMO Tkachuk will always be an elite complimentary player because he's extremely smart, a good playmaker, does the dirty work on his line by winning board battles and driving the net, He compliments anybody he plays with. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. I don't think sending him back to junior this year does anything to change whether or not he'll be an elite complimentary player.

Being a complimentary player is a compliment, not a knock. Powerforwards are complimentary players by definition IMO. Playmakers are complimentary players by definition. They compliment their line mates. Tkachuk is both a powerforward and playmaker and thus he's an elite complimentary player.

Gaudreau and Monahan do not need a puck hog line driving player. They need a player who compliments their strengths and weaknesses. Tkachuk is that style of player. Going back to junior does not change the style of player he will be IMO

Yea I didn't mean it in terms of style in this instance, more so in terms of importance (I 100% agree with your assessment, he has elite complimentary player upside). I should have used the term "secondary". He doesn't have to know how to drive the play, but I want him to have that perspective that he can be the guy on a winning team.

I think Corey Perry is a good example of a complimentary player who also knows how to be a "primary" player if that makes any sense? And maybe Vanek back in the day.

I really think that is a hugely important psychological development step. At least it was for me in my mediocre junior days.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

He doesn't have to know how to drive the play, but I want him to have that perspective that he can be the guy on a winning team.

That honestly doesn't come across as a concern with this prospect. I'm not trying to be dismissive either. It's an interesting point but one that doesn't worry me with Matthew Tkachuk. The guy just comes across as a winner.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

That honestly doesn't come across as a concern with this prospect. I'm not trying to be dismissive either. It's an interesting point but one that doesn't worry me with Matthew Tkachuk. The guy just comes across as a winner.

I think he is as well. But there are going to be times when things aren't going in for him, and I think it's important to have that "I'm the man" swagger, which you get when you play a whole season as the man.

Of course it might not matter, its really just a personal development philosophy of mine that I felt was extremely important in me becoming the player I eventually became (epitome of mediocre I assure you).

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

That honestly doesn't come across as a concern with this prospect. I'm not trying to be dismissive either. It's an interesting point but one that doesn't worry me with Matthew Tkachuk. The guy just comes across as a winner.

A winner and a PRO.

He doesn't choose his teammates. What he has done is make the most of his opportunities and work hard at refining his own abilities. Those are very desirable attributes.

It's entirely conceivable that he returns to the OHL, but at this late-stage of training camp he's being handed a solid opportunity with Brouwer and Bennett as a viable second line. Coaching staff seems pleased so far.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

That honestly doesn't come across as a concern with this prospect. I'm not trying to be dismissive either. It's an interesting point but one that doesn't worry me with Matthew Tkachuk. The guy just comes across as a winner.

He doesn't just come across as a winner, he is one. He's a winner of a U18 Gold Medal. He's a winner of an OHL Championship. He's a winner of a Memorial Cup Championship. And he wasn't a bit player on those teams, he wasn't carried. He was a 1st liner and a primary threat on Championship teams. Very few players his age have as good a history of being a winner.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Going into main camp I was "Meh. Promising kid, but if he goes back to junior that's okay too."

Now? I just get the sense that he sticks given his handling by management. He's been handed a prominent role and he hasn't disappointed.

[Stay Golden]

Tkachuk looks like physical wise he is NHL ready, hockey IQ and pace he is ready. He doesn't carry the play but he has a nose for the net. Not flashy but effective.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

One concern I have is that while he's a physically big guy for his age, he's still a kid. He doesn't have that adult strength yet, regardless of height and weight

Strange, I believe it was Loubardias on the radio today talking about how third year pro, 22-year old Brett Kulak was "bouncing off" Tkachuk in battle drills.

Now I don't think Tkachuk yet has the quickness needed to play that suffocating forecheck needed to realize his full potential. But strength AFAIK is not an issue. Gary Roberts has him physically prepared to bang with the big boys.

[Timbo]

Is there a winger other than Brower that has looked better than Tkachuk? Not that I have seen.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

He doesn't just come across as a winner, he is one. He's a winner of a U18 Gold Medal. He's a winner of an OHL Championship. He's a winner of a Memorial Cup Championship. And he wasn't a bit player on those teams, he wasn't carried. He was a 1st liner and a primary threat on Championship teams. Very few players his age have as good a history of being a winner.

His history reads better than McJesus' history. I am not saying he is a better player than The Savoir, but the resume is impressive. For all McDavid has done on an individual level he hasn't pushed his teams to championships.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

His history reads better than McJesus' history. I am not saying he is a better player than The Savoir, but the resume is impressive. For all McDavid has done on an individual level he hasn't pushed his teams to championships.

To be fair, McDavid was a key contributor on a WJC gold medal team and carried Canada to a U18 gold. And nearly carried Erie to an OHL championship.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

To be fair, McDavid was a key contributor on a WJC gold medal team and carried Canada to a U18 gold. And nearly carried Erie to an OHL championship.

Tkachuk was an important part of the 2015 U18 for the US gold medal team as well. He was also the top scorer for the US at the WJC in 2016.

Like I said, I am not saying that he is a better player/prospect. But he has an impressive CV was well, and knows about winning.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Tkachuk was an important part of the 2015 U18 for the US gold medal team as well. He was also the top scorer for the US at the WJC in 2016.

Like I said, I am not saying that he is a better player/prospect. But he has an impressive CV was well, and knows about winning.

Sure Tkachuk has a great record. But you said McDavid hadn't pushed his team to a championship when he has multiple times.

Anyways team success is overrated IMO.

[Isikiz]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Depends what you mean by complimentary. Seems like some people see that as a knock or a negative. IMO Tkachuk will always be an elite complimentary player because he's extremely smart, a good playmaker, does the dirty work on his line by winning board battles and driving the net, He compliments anybody he plays with. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. I don't think sending him back to junior this year does anything to change whether or not he'll be an elite complimentary player.

Being a complimentary player is a compliment, not a knock. Powerforwards are complimentary players by definition IMO. Playmakers are complimentary players by definition. They compliment their line mates. Tkachuk is both a powerforward and playmaker and thus he's an elite complimentary player.

Gaudreau and Monahan do not need a puck hog line driving player. They need a player who compliments their strengths and weaknesses. Tkachuk is that style of player. Going back to junior does not change the style of player he will be IMO

Hey FDW, just curious - who do you consider to be elite complimentary players around the league?

[Reggie Dunlop]

I read "complimentary" as "guy who puts pucks in the net." I'm all in on that action. Sign me up!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Isikiz

Hey FDW, just curious - who do you consider to be elite complimentary players around the league?

We're getting way too hung up on meaningless labels here.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Cole436

He has a big frame, but from what was evident rink side is that it's not very full at this point. And it shouldn't be, he's only 18. I trust the coaching staff's decision in what the next steps are for his development, and the one thing that was evident to me all through camp was that he has to get bigger to play the game he wants to play effectively.

You can word it whatever way you want, but as I said, if something is holding him back, it isn't going to be size. He is 200+ pounds at 6'2.

Bennett plays the style of game you're talking about in the 180s.

If anything, we're likely seeing him work through playing against pros in these first few games for the first time, not a lack of size / pounds. If that is the only concern, he's going to be fine.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Not that I disagree with what you're says, GoJetsGo. Just want to clarify that Bennett is around 200 now as well. Was 190 last camp and said he added ten pounds this summer heading into this years camp.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Not that I disagree with what you're says, GoJetsGo. Just want to clarify that Bennett is around 200 now as well. Was 190 last camp and said he added ten pounds this summer heading into this years camp.

I should have said played. He came into the league and played that style of game with a slighter frame / at a lower weight than Tkachuck has now.

I just don't see Tkchuk's current stature being the thing holding him back is all.

[Isikiz]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

We're getting way too hung up on meaningless labels here.

I don't think they're meaningless labels. I think there's value to labeling someone as a complimentary player - i.e. not a driver of the line, but significantly benefits from having a driver on their line (someone like Gaudreau). I was thinking along the lines of Anson Carter with the Sedins, or Cheechoo with Thornton - but I guess no one would consider them elite, though they definitely were effective offensively during the time.

I was just trying to think of current-day comparables of complimentary players to compare them to Tkachuk.