Duped implies deception. Trump is very straightforward with everything. Too straight forward.
He is a master salesman, and is selling exactly what the American populace is looking for.
Politifact has stated that only 15% of what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth is considered mostly true. An astounding 71% is mostly false to pants on fire, raging lies. Conversely, Clinton rolls in at 27% in the same measure. That's pretty straight forward.
If you look up "duped" in the dictionary you might be surprised to find this picture next to the definition.
Mr. Trump said he did not think he needed to prepare more rigorously for the next debate than he did for the first one, because any shortcomings on Monday, he argued, were because of a problem with the microphone at his lectern, which he “spent 50 percent of my thought process” dealing with.
Trump is so generous; he gives us shiny new toys every single day. This quote is my new favourite thing. The absolute epitome of slacker teen-ager logic.
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He's straight forward only in that he speaks what he's thinking and says whatever he feels like saying. But he tells endless lies, which is deceptive.
He's a salesman, sure. But I wouldn't call him a master of the trade. He's only got the attention of a certain portion of the populace and with them it's an easy sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarchHare
Yes, he sure is selling exactly what the American populace is looking for...which explains why he's never been able to consistently top 40% support in the polls at any point during the campaign.
The general election support numbers aren't really as telling as the primary was. The general election is going to fall around the historical GOP/DEM lines, sure, but Trump beating out the top contenders within the GOP party is quite remarkable since you've isolated for only the one half of the spectrum. Bush was seen as the incumbent, Rubio the GOP's young rising star, Kasich a long standing Congressman & Governor with a great track record, Rand Paul appealed to his dad's base and the non-traditional GOP. Trump took them all down, he outsold them.
The fact he is this close (and until last week was beating Clinton on an electoral college basis) to another presumed shoe-in, is pretty remarkable too for a guy everyone thought was toast a week into his GOP bid.
Duped implies deception. Drumpf is very straightforward with everything. Too straight forward.
I think you're mistaking "doesn't sound like a politician" for "straight forward". He's still full of crap, he just delivers the crap to you in a different tone of voice.
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Giuliani actually might be the most revolting person involved in this race right now, which is obviously saying something. Or maybe he's on the same coke Trump is, who knows.
Quote:
Former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani was invited to a financial services trade group’s award dinner last week to speak about leadership—but instead delivered a political speech that strayed so far from that topic the group felt it necessary to apologize to its guests.
On Monday, the Commercial Finance Association sent out an email apologizing for the “unscripted personal opinions” that Giuliani, a prominent supporter and close adviser to Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, shared with the crowd at their 40 Under 40 dinner at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel.
“At CFA’s 40 Under 40 Awards last Thursday night, keynote speaker Rudolph Giuliani veered sharply off course from the leadership message he agreed to deliver and presented unscripted personal opinions which were independent of CFA’s political position or core values,” Bob Trojan, the group’s CEO, wrote in an email sent to attendees and forwarded to the Observer. “While we, the event organizers, made every attempt to direct Mr. Giuliani’s remarks ahead of time to focus on leadership, for which he is renowned and has authored a book, there is always the possibility of such a surprise at a live event.”
The note continued: “For those of you who were offended by Mr. Giuliani’s remarks, please accept my sincere apology.”
The apology for Giuliani’s speech was sent Monday, just a day before the Commercial Observer reported that Giuliani had been axed as the keynote speaker for a conference held by the International Council of Shopping Centers—following letters from real estate professionals who deemed him divisive for his outspoken support of Trump.
The remarks Giuliani made to the Commercial Finance Association Thursday have not been publicly reported. But an attendee told the Observer the crowd was “shocked” by Giuliani’s comments and that some people began complaining about his speech almost immediately after it was over.
“Rudy talked about immigration and made a really, really inappropriate comment about the quote-unquote Mexicans in the kitchen at the Waldorf,” the attendee said. “It was bad. You could hear a pin drop. I think he was looking for applause.”
A second person in attendance also recalled a remark about Mexicans coming to the country to work illegally in kitchens.
I don't think you understand the words you're using.
Straightforward is literally the opposite of what he is. It means to be honest and Frank. Invented statistics, hyperbolized anecdotes and obfuscation are not straightforward, honest or frank.
Serious question: Are you trolling, or do you believe Trump's foundation is as good as he says? Was he frank and honest about Global Warming being a hoax or when he said he never said that? Is he being straightforward about his taxes?
Yes, clearly when I said straightforward I meant everything he said was 100% the truth. If you want to be a pedant, you can pick apart every word of every post on the internet.
The guy makes things up, changes his position, and plays to what people want to hear to make the deal, but what I was talking about, was that he tells it like it is (what I meant by straight forward / straight shooter) and doesn't beat around the bush with PC talk. No, I don't agree with a lot of the things he has said or supports, but telling it like it is, in this day and age of "outrage culture", is something I can appreciate.
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
Exp:
Haha... telling it like "it" is. What is "it" that he is telling you?
Haha... telling it like "it" is. What is "it" that he is telling you?
That being extremely angry and mostly hating everything about society is completely acceptable. Anyway Flash will be in shortly to remind us nothing Trump says matters, which is true. We should feel sorry for someone going through dementia, instead we try and rationalize it. Sometimes the easiest answer is the one right in front of you.
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Yes, clearly when I said straightforward I meant everything he said was 100% the truth. If you want to be a pedant, you can pick apart every word of every post on the internet.
The guy makes things up, changes his position, and plays to what people want to hear to make the deal, but what I was talking about, was that he tells it like it is (what I meant by straight forward / straight shooter) and doesn't beat around the bush with PC talk. No, I don't agree with a lot of the things he has said or supports, but telling it like it is, in this day and age of "outrage culture", is something I can appreciate.
What is it he's telling you that the PC outrage is avoiding? Most Mexican immigrants are rapists? The decline of the manufacturing industry is the fault of outsiders? The decline of coal is because of environmental regulations? That climate change is a hoax?
Honestly, that's not pedantry, that is questioning your assertion that he "tells it like it is", because that assertion is factually wrong. It would be more correct to say he "tells it like you want it to be", because how it "is" is quite different than how he tells it.
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What is it he's telling you that the PC outrage is avoiding? Most Mexican immigrants are rapists? The decline of the manufacturing industry is the fault of outsiders? The decline of coal is because of environmental regulations? That climate change is a hoax?
Honestly, that's not pedantry, that is questioning your assertion that he "tells it like it is", because that assertion is factually wrong. It would be more correct to say he "tells it like you want it to be", because how it "is" is quite different than how he tells it.
I think you misunderstood my argument, yet again. But keep hammering on the minutiae of the post.
I am not arguing any of those positions he has, but rather, his lack of caring about being politically correct, irregardless of the underlying position. He shoots from the hip, and it is refreshing. His accuracy from the hip might be terrible, but that's not my point. The public world over the last 2 years has become such a joke in terms of political correctness and taking outrage over anything the least bit non-conforming. He still speaks publicly the way most people still speak in our personal lives (and that has nothing to do thoughts with race, gender, or religion).
What is it he's telling you that the PC outrage is avoiding?
I mean, there's this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barack Obama, last week
The truth of the matter is that this is an issue that has been sort of manufactured, because there is no doubt, and I've said repeatedly that where we see terrorist organizations like al-Qaeda or ISIL, they have perverted and distorted and tried to claim the mantle of Islam for an excuse, for basically barbarism and death. These are people who kill children, kill Muslims, take sex slaves - there's no religious rationale that would justify in any way any of the things that they do.
That's been the line from the Democratic party for years. It's utter nonsense, and Obama knows he's completely full of crap when he says this stuff. Of course the rationale for ISIS's actions is religious. ISIS has explicit, clear textual justification for everything they do, from the Qu'ran or Hadiths. Muhammad was a warlord from the dark ages. ISIS is just following in his footsteps; there's nothing they do that their prophet didn't do, or sanction, according to scripture.
However, the reason for this dishonesty on Obama's part is pretty simple:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barack Obama, also last week
What I learned from listening to some of these Muslim families both in the United States and overseas is that when you start calling these organizations Islamic terrorists, the way it's heard, the way it's received by our friends and allies around the world is that somehow Islam is terroristic. And that then makes them feel as if they're under attack. In some cases, it makes it harder for us to get their cooperation in fighting terrorism.
Basically, most people are stupid, and can't understand that our problem isn't with Muslims generally, but rather the subset of Muslims who either support or carry out terrible acts. So we have to indulge that stupidity and pretend that those other Muslims doing terrible things either are "using Islam as an excuse" and "perverting a great religion" so that we can keep them as allies. That's a pretty cynical and depressing view, but he seems to think it's absolutely the case that the Muslims we need as allies are in fact just that dense and myopic.
Hey, I haven't posted a clip from the West Wing for a while.
But that's an example of what people are frustrated with, as they see it as lying in the name of cultural sensitivity while people are being murdered in nightclubs. Unfortunately, when you fail to speak honestly about the religious motivations of killers, that does frustrate people. And it opens the door for any demagogue to come in and "tell it like it is", even if the message he offers is the product of a mind incapable of thinking about complex issues above a fourth grade level. Obama and Hillary won't speak honestly about the problem, but I'm confident that they at least do understand it, even if they can't say so owing to their read of the diplomatic landscape. Trump doesn't have a clue.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 10-01-2016 at 12:21 PM.
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Giuliani actually might be the most revolting person involved in this race right now, which is obviously saying something. Or maybe he's on the same coke Trump is, who knows.
Corsi, that nuance you just displayed is more nuance than the trump campaign has shown through the entire campaign. I could probably say with accuracy that you and I are on the same side of the fence when it comes to organized religion and violence specifically when it comes to the religion of Islam, but neither of us would ever consider voting for trump because we both know Trump doesn't stand for some kind of beacon of straight talk about Islam, he's a shyster crook who doesn't engage in rational debate or point - counter-point discussions.
I see lots of jockeying to paint Trump's rise as some kind of anti-establishment vote but I really don't think that is the case at all. With Cantor and other politicians, the Tea Party movement was the anti-establishment wave of idiots who couldn't identify who or what the establishment was, but they knew they didn't like it.
I honestly think that what Hillary said about Trump's supporters being largely racist was too conservative of an estimate. Trump has made a plain appeal to racism, xenophobia and misogyny in this campaign and has avoided most of the dog whistles traditionally used in favour plain language.
I think you misunderstood my argument, yet again. But keep hammering on the minutiae of the post.
I am not arguing any of those positions he has, but rather, his lack of caring about being politically correct, irregardless of the underlying position. He shoots from the hip, and it is refreshing. His accuracy from the hip might be terrible, but that's not my point. The public world over the last 2 years has become such a joke in terms of political correctness and taking outrage over anything the least bit non-conforming. He still speaks publicly the way most people still speak in our personal lives (and that has nothing to do thoughts with race, gender, or religion).
If people keep misunderstanding your argument, perhaps you're being unclear. You applaud him for "telling it like it is" (which seems to be a common refrain regarding Trump) but when people point out that he's probably the most shameless liar that has ever run for President all of the sudden you didn't mean that, or your definition of "telling it like it is" is different from everyone else's.
If your point is that he's the personification of the ugly underbelly of the United States and many people are ecstatic to see a Presidential candidate publicly express the racism, ignorance, and irrationality that mirrors their own beliefs, then sure. But that's not "telling it like it is". That's a shyster playing on the fears of a declining segment of society, which is straight out of the right wing playbook for how to contest elections. Extremists can always get away with more "straight forward" language because they don't worry about nuance or how different people might interpret what they're saying; they're more focused on slogans and dumbing down the issues so they can blame minorities or external forces for the country's problems and rile up their core supporters.
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That's been the line from the Democratic party for years. It's utter nonsense, and Obama knows he's completely full of crap when he says this stuff. Of course the rationale for ISIS's actions is religious. ISIS has explicit, clear textual justification for everything they do, from the Qu'ran or Hadiths. Muhammad was a warlord from the dark ages. ISIS is just following in his footsteps; there's nothing they do that their prophet didn't do, or sanction, according to scripture.
However, the reason for this dishonesty on Obama's part is pretty simple:
Basically, most people are stupid, and can't understand that our problem isn't with Muslims generally, but rather the subset of Muslims who either support or carry out terrible acts. So we have to indulge that stupidity and pretend that those other Muslims doing terrible things either are "using Islam as an excuse" and "perverting a great religion" so that we can keep them as allies. That's a pretty cynical and depressing view, but he seems to think it's absolutely the case that the Muslims we need as allies are in fact just that dense and myopic.
Hey, I haven't posted a clip from the West Wing for a while.
But that's an example of what people are frustrated with, as they see it as lying in the name of cultural sensitivity while people are being murdered in nightclubs. Unfortunately, when you fail to speak honestly about the religious motivations of killers, that does frustrate people. And it opens the door for any demagogue to come in and "tell it like it is", even if the message he offers is the product of a mind incapable of thinking about complex issues above a fourth grade level. Obama and Hillary won't speak honestly about the problem, but I'm confident that they at least do understand it, even if they can't say so owing to their read of the diplomatic landscape. Trump doesn't have a clue.
That's literally one issue, and he hasn't even really mentioned it. I know it's your pet concern, but it's superfluous to this argument, because it's not an issue he's "told it like it is". He has spoken far more on issues of non white immigration, race relations, gender equality and individual pettiness. You're adding something foreign to this debate that isn't relevant.
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I think you misunderstood my argument, yet again. But keep hammering on the minutiae of the post.
I am not arguing any of those positions he has, but rather, his lack of caring about being politically correct, irregardless of the underlying position. He shoots from the hip, and it is refreshing. His accuracy from the hip might be terrible, but that's not my point. The public world over the last 2 years has become such a joke in terms of political correctness and taking outrage over anything the least bit non-conforming. He still speaks publicly the way most people still speak in our personal lives (and that has nothing to do thoughts with race, gender, or religion).
I guess what you find refreshing I find abhorrent. People may tell racist jokes in private, that doesn't mean a presidential candidate should. You may not need to worry about offending immigrants with your speech, but someone vying to become the leader of a nation of immigrants sure as hell should
I guess what you find refreshing I find abhorrent. People may tell racist jokes in private, that doesn't mean a presidential candidate should. You may not need to worry about offending immigrants with your speech, but someone vying to become the leader of a nation of immigrants sure as hell should
I even went out of my way to make it clear I wasn't talking about racism, religion, when I meant talking like we do in private, and still, you ignored that. I take it you're just trying to troll me? Anyways, I've said my thoughts on the matter and will leave it at that.
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So essentially you like that he talks without a filter, not that he "tells it like it is". So I'm gonna come back to my point that he has dementia. He cannot stop himself from saying these things, so it's not that he's some unfiltered man of the people, he's just mentally unstable and literally cannot stop himself from doing it. The tweet yesterday directing people to go watch some porn (that by the way doesn't even exist) being about the clearest proof yet. It's at best a bad idea showing he's temperamentally unfit, and at worst something that will cost him voters (women...), but he can't help himself. We shouldn't be applauding his "telling like it is", or speaking without a filter or whatever, because that's not what this is. It's mental illness, and we shouldn't applaud that. We should get him the help he desperately needs.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
If you want to be a pedant, you can pick apart every word of every post on the internet. 
