[Rumour] UPD: Friedman: Thinks a deal will get done between Gaudreau and the Flames in the next week

[photon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Mony and Gio are signed so it doesn't affect their contracts at least for a bunch of years

It affects all contracts across the league immediately, the money a player gets isn't what they signed their contact for, it's a portion of the league revenues.

If the league revenue is $100, then all the players salary is $50 total. If there's 2 players in the league both signed to $25 contracts, all is fine.

If a 3rd player is signed to a $50 contract, total league salaries are now $100, but revenue sharing caps the salaries at $50, so now the first two players will make $12.50 and the 3rd player that just signed will make $25.

It's a pie of fixed size, increasing one person's share or adding shares decreases everyone else's share.

EDIT: It's more complex than that of course since revenues aren't known in advance so players pay a percentage into escrow (16% I think this year) and then when revenues are known they're refunded the portion of escrow that is "unused".

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by underclassman

I hope you're wrong about a long term sit out situation .

Correct me if I am wrong, but if he is unsigned by Dec 1st, he is ineligible to play the rest of the season, right?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by polak

If they're trying to low ball then I hope Johnny's agent takes it public.

What's a "low ball" in your opinion? Something between Monahan and the guy who's the top 2 d-man, Captain of the team, arguably Norris calibre d-man, short-list for Team Canada at the Worlds and Olympics, top 6 in points for d-men, plays PK and PP, top 2 in PPG the year before when his year was cut short (top 3 the year before that)?

Gio gets shortchanged around here.

[Vulcan]

On TSN Craig Button said, going by his experience of signing Iginla, Johnny should get $7.5M over 8 years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by photon

It affects all contracts across the league immediately, the money a player gets isn't what they signed their contact for, it's a portion of the league revenues.

If the league revenue is $100, then all the players salary is $50 total. If there's 2 players in the league both signed to $25 contracts, all is fine.

If a 3rd player is signed to a $50 contract, total league salaries are now $100, but revenue sharing caps the salaries at $50, so now the first two players will make $12.50 and the 3rd player that just signed will make $25.

It's a pie of fixed size, increasing one person's share or adding shares decreases everyone else's share.

EDIT: It's more complex than that of course since revenues aren't known in advance so players pay a percentage into escrow (16% I think this year) and then when revenues are known they're refunded the portion of escrow that is "unused".

Well, fair enough but I don't think they think that deeply into it. IMO they think "hey, player salaries are going up, good for us".

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What's a "low ball" in your opinion? Something between Monahan and the guy who's the top 2 d-man, Captain of the team, arguably Norris calibre d-man, short-list for Team Canada at the Worlds and Olympics, top 6 in points for d-men, plays PK and PP, top 2 in PPG the year before when his year was cut short?

Gio gets shortchanged around here.

On that same note though, the argument that Gaudreau is unproven could be applied to Gio's playoff resume. 1 goal and 4GP isn't really much to go on if you're looking to build a contending team that wins a couple of playoff series every season.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

"Luck" does literally not exist.

Poor Bennett

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

On that same note though, the argument that Gaudreau is unproven could be applied to Gio's playoff resume. 1 goal and 4GP isn't really much to go on if you're looking to build a contending team that wins a couple of playoff series every season.

He doesn't have much of a PO resume because he played on a crappy team, and the one year when they made it (due in large part to his Norris calibre year until his injury) he didn't get to play.

I can name 30 teams that'd love to have a Gio in the POs. Only Edmonton wouldn't (they already have 5 I hear).

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

On TSN Craig Button said, going by his experience of signing Iginla, Johnny should get $7.5M over 8 years.

So... Some of the talking heads are coming around and recognizing Johnny should be getting more than 6.75?

At 7.5, just give him 8x8 and be done with it.

[IntenseFan]

This is a bit of a depressing situation.


EDIT: The Flames being penalized for overspending the cap last year is not helping with the depression.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

So... Some of the talking heads are coming around and recognizing Johnny should be getting more than 6.75?

At 7.5, just give him 8x8 and be done with it.

Or, if that's the value some ascribe and the Flames are balking, maybe Johnny should just take 7 and be done with it.

Treliving strikes me as a guy who will do what he thinks is a fair deal but won't throw in extra money "just because".

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He doesn't have much of a PO resume because he played on a crappy team, and the one year when they made it (due in large part to his Norris calibre year until his injury) he didn't get to play.

I can name 30 teams that'd love to have a Gio in the POs. Only Edmonton wouldn't (they already have 5 I hear).

It's not really just CP that "short changes" him though. Hockey Canada didn't and hasn't selected him for their teams for their own reasons.

I just don't think Giordano is as important to the team as Johnny is, if you disagree that's fine too. The team didn't even need him for 30+ games to not only secure a playoff spot, but win a series.

If the Flames are going to use Gio's salary as the hill to die on, it's a mistake IMO.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

So... Some of the talking heads are coming around and recognizing Johnny should be getting more than 6.75?

At 7.5, just give him 8x8 and be done with it.

So one side should basically bow to the other.
Sets a nice precedent for future negotiations

[Manhattanboy]

If its true that the Flames have not moved from their original position then as a season ticket holder for 20 years I am angry. But the JG camp has to show some movement as well.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So an entire season is too small a sample size
But a 3 game tournament performance isn't?

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

All season? Jiri already nailed you above, but an entire season is small but three games at the world cup, yuge?

And yes Polak, we know you're #TeamJohnny, but don't fret, it appears his agency is already taking to message boards.

When looking at percentages, yes 39 games is a very small sample. Unless you expect his 20% home shooting percentages to sustain.

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

"Luck" does literally not exist.

You want to call it random variance? Would that make you feel better?

It's funny how people are all over Johnny about his road splits but couldn't care less about Monahan's. In the road games they played together, Monahan had only 1 more point.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

It's not really just CP that "short changes" him though. Hockey Canada didn't and hasn't selected him for their teams for their own reasons.

I just don't think Giordano is as important to the team as Johnny is, if you disagree that's fine too. The team didn't even need him for 30+ games to not only secure a playoff spot, but win a series.

If the Flames are going to use Gio's salary as the hill to die on, it's a mistake IMO.

Well said

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

If its true that the Flames have not moved from their original position then as a season ticket holder for 20 years I am angry. But the JG camp has to show some movement as well.

As well you should be.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But generally I think the players like higher contracts because it raises the bar for everyone.

In a Salary Cap system, that's certainly not true for all players.

For a number of years, people have been saying that the "middle class" NHL player is going to disappear, and we're starting to see that happen.

The very top level players are still getting paid, but everyone else has to make due with less to make up for it. Of course, it's hard to feel sad for players in a league where the minimum salary is still over half a million per year, but it's still having an impact.


Look at Chicago's payroll right now: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/blackhawks

22 players on their NHL roster. 12 of them make less than $1 million per season. If you combine those 12 players salaries, the total is more than $2 million lower than Kane and Toews' individual cap hits.

They have one player with a cap hit between $900,000 and $3 million. 12 below $900,000, and 9 above $3 million.


The only reason this has taken so long is because the early years of the cap system saw the cap increase significantly from year-to-year, so players taking a high percentage of the cap on a long term deal saw that percentage decrease quite a bit over the life of the contract, and it freed up cap space for new contracts to be signed. With the cap increases flattening out like they have in the last couple of seasons, those high-end deals are still taking a significant chunk of the cap a year or two later.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

It's funny how people are all over Johnny about his road splits but couldn't care less about Monahan's. In the road games they played together, Monahan had only 1 more point.

Monahan isn't holding out for 8 million dollars a year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

It's not really just CP that "short changes" him though. Hockey Canada didn't and hasn't selected him for their teams for their own reasons.

I just don't think Giordano is as important to the team as Johnny is, if you disagree that's fine too. The team didn't even need him for 30+ games to not only secure a playoff spot, but win a series.

If the Flames are going to use Gio's salary as the hill to die on, it's a mistake IMO.

He was shortlisted on Hockey Canada's teams each time and they seem to place emphasis on previous attendance, RH v LH, etc. Tell me he's not better than Jaybo. Now arguably Gaudreau would've selected to USA been this year as well.

I think Gio has a good case that he's more important - I still think he's the best D man on the team (despite Brodie's greater flash) and as such plays a bigger role in all facets of the game than an purely offensive winger, even one of Gaudreau's ability. And I tend to think that without Gio's great first 60% of the season, the Flames are not close to a PO spot. That year was a perfect storm of Gio's great year, decent goaltending, breakout seasons for Gaudreau, Monahan and Brodie, better than normal years from Hudler, Russell and Wideman and unusually strong play from lower depth guys like Jooris and Bouma.

That's not to say I think Gio's salary should be or even is the cap - it's a pretty good deal, but even so extends past when he will have that kind of argument whereas the Flames would be getting good value from Johnny for the entire term IMO. I just don't think offering Johnny something close to Gio's salary is a "lowball".

[IntenseFan]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

It's funny how people are all over Johnny about his road splits but couldn't care less about Monahan's. In the road games they played together, Monahan had only 1 more point.

I'm not giving any Flame a pass for their road play last year. 14 wins is putrid.

They all get a piece of the blame.