Alberta Politics Thread

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Did Iggy_Oi just say that the most important skill required for a hostess (whose job is apparently not easy) is showing up?

For eff sakes, that is not a skill that is literally the most basic part of being employed.

Yet in his mind, he thinks they deserve a pay increase just for doing the literal bare minimum..

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Dion

To be fair the individual locations across NA are run by franchise owners and operated as such. I know the franchise owner here in High River.

Absorbing extra costs without a beat is not always true. He can't just raise his prices when wages go up as that is a corprorate decison. It doesn't matter if the new Kiosk system is a joke, he still has to use it.

Macdonalds restaurants in different regions have different prices, so I'm sure if it meant the difference between them closing their doors or staying profitable they would choose staying profitable. And while I understand the point about individual franchisees owning different locations, when you are making a 5000% profit on every soft drink or coffee you sell it is very difficult to argue they aren't making money. I know someone who's brother owns 7 franchises, that is his only business and it has made him a millionaire. Meanwhile he complains about having to pay overtime on stat holidays.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I guess all the money patrons were spending at that restaurant(or any business) that closed down will simply go under their mattress. There's no chance they would spend that money at other businesses. Since there's no chance of that, then by default there would be no chance of those other businesses seeing growth and creating new jobs. No chance any of that happens at all. I guess the only thing we know for certain is that raising the minimum wage can't possibly have good benefits that outweigh the bad.

I find it interesting how people seem to try to justify their argument by creating a timeline of events and then stopping as soon as it's convenient for their argument.

Phase 1- raise minimum wage

Phase 2- employer goes out of business, employees can't work there anymore

Phase 3- ???? (What happens then? Armageddon? Zombie apocalypse?)

As opposed to

Phase 1- Maintain current minimum wage

Phase 2- ?????

Phase 3- Profit! (For employers)

You keep going back to this and ignoring a hard fundamental truth that a lot of small businesses have gone under and some medium as well. We're seeing weekly stories of businesses siting cost uncertainty as leading to their businesses shuttering.

You're also focusing on one businesses direct labor costs and not looking at the chain of events caused by an arbitrarily and random increase that means that everything that restaurant touches goes up in price. Food prices increase, logistical costs increase, even basic necessity costs increase. And then when that restaurant or restaurants go out of business it resonates back down the chain. Sales drop to these food suppliers and logistics chains and basic necessity costs.

Add to that its not as easy as increasing your prices because loyalty only goes so far, if you jump your prices by 10 or 20 percent, no matter how good your food and services is, those patrons will be checking out other places and will probably move on to a big franchise because frankly they buy in massive bulk and often multifranchises are part of the same purchase agreement.

Restaurants and bars are a razor edge business, they don't run on these massive capitalistic get rich easily schemes, there are restaurants that break even on food and mark up booze for example.

I talked to my brother in law who runs a bar restaurant, and usually the difference between losing money and making money on any single day is about 5 to 10 customers. With a lot of them, they depend on events like Stampede to pay their bills and make a profit over the year.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Macdonalds restaurants in different regions have different prices, so I'm sure if it meant the difference between them closing their doors or staying profitable they would choose staying profitable. And while I understand the point about individual franchisees owning different locations, when you are making a 5000% profit on every soft drink or coffee you sell it is very difficult to argue they aren't making money. I know someone who's brother owns 7 franchises, that is his only business and it has made him a millionaire. Meanwhile he complains about having to pay overtime on stat holidays.

Umm I think a citation is required here. You're basically saying that the cost on a large pop at McDonalds is less then a penny

same on a coffee.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I guess all the money patrons were spending at that restaurant(or any business) that closed down will simply go under their mattress. There's no chance they would spend that money at other businesses. Since there's no chance of that, then by default there would be no chance of those other businesses seeing growth and creating new jobs. No chance any of that happens at all. I guess the only thing we know for certain is that raising the minimum wage can't possibly have good benefits that outweigh the bad.

Again, for the theory to work, for minimum wage to actually improve the economy as you say it will, you have to have a strong and improving economy in the first place. The results from Seattle are not great and their economy is booming. Ours is far weaker right now. That means we're starting with fewer people willing to spend more.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I guess all the money patrons were spending at that restaurant(or any business) that closed down will simply go under their mattress. There's no chance they would spend that money at other businesses. Since there's no chance of that, then by default there would be no chance of those other businesses seeing growth and creating new jobs. No chance any of that happens at all. I guess the only thing we know for certain is that raising the minimum wage can't possibly have good benefits that outweigh the bad.

I find it interesting how people seem to try to justify their argument by creating a timeline of events and then stopping as soon as it's convenient for their argument.

Phase 1- raise minimum wage

Phase 2- employer goes out of business, employees can't work there anymore

Phase 3- ???? (What happens then? Armageddon? Zombie apocalypse?)

As opposed to

Phase 1- Maintain current minimum wage

Phase 2- ?????

Phase 3- Profit! (For employers)

But I dont think anyone here is arguing for the abolition of minimum wage, just that massive jumps arent good, healthy or productive.

Nor are they going to fix the problem we're told these are solutions for.

In addition to which we're arguing against a policy being introduced by a Government that has jacked up every tax they could get their hands on and then invented a few new ones on top of it all while not having the slightest clue as to what they're doing or the consequences thereof.

They're treating our economy like a dog treats a chew toy and telling us that if we dont like it we're cold and uncaring.

At some point any system reaches capacity and cant continue.

As I've made very clear many, many times, the economy isnt a bag of tricks that you can pull rabbits out of, it isnt magic, its about slow steady growth and you can even make the claim that we expect perpetual growth and that isnt going to work either.

The point of the matter is that at the moment our current Government(s) are comprised of idiots more concerned about optics and fantasies (Social Licenses anyone? Available at any corner store) than they are about realities.

And if you dont believe that raising minimum wage, raising taxes and bloodying the Albertan economy is the best course of action for all concerned then you're not 'with us' and as such you are the terrorists.

"Get 'em!!"

Thats my major issue. We have people saying that if you have a problem with raising minimum wages and taxes then you hate Immigrants and Poor people.

And thats just not true, I just know when someone's 'good idea' is in reality ridiculous, uneducated bull-plop.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Umm I think a citation is required here. You're basically saying that the cost on a large pop at McDonalds is less then a penny

same on a coffee.

Actually, and I'm far from on expert on that, but I dont think hes far off on that one. The profit margins on drinks are easily the highest of anything a restaurant sells.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Did Iggy_Oi just say that the most important skill required for a hostess (whose job is apparently not easy) is showing up?

For eff sakes, that is not a skill that is literally the most basic part of being employed.

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Yet in his mind, he thinks they deserve a pay increase just for doing the literal bare minimum..

No I did not say that, but that's a very nice attempt at cherry picking one part a sentence I wrote and trying to use it as an argument. I listed multiple qualities a good hostess would have, and like any position that a company requires to be filled in order for them to make money, they likely rely on that person to show up to work. Minimum wage or $40/hour, you won't have that job if you don't show up. That business is paying you to show up and do the task you're assigned, same as any job, there is a reliance on that worker to be there.

Interesting the amount of people who argue the point that people shouldn't be paid a living wage for just showing up and doing some random task that doesn't take much effort(in their opinion). My guess is that most people on here are doing that as we speak, yet feel because they went to school for 3 or 4 years studying something completely unrelated to their position and still had to be trained on the job once they were hired, they are somehow entitled to more.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The lack of empathy towards workers by some posters in this thread is shocking. You're a single mom trying to keep your kids off the streets? Deal with it! You're a young adult who grew up in poverty and are trying to work towards becoming educated in a higher paying field or industry? Figure it out!

I spent a significant amount of my 20s earning minimum wage or not much higher. I regularly got a GST refund cheque, and relied on it for such extravagances as buying clothes.

The parts you seem to have tremendous difficulty understanding are:

• The overwhelming majority of people earning minimum wage are young people who soon transition into higher paid work.
  
• Entrepreneurs don't have to create and run businesses. Instead of opening a restaurant or running a landscaping business, they can simple work somewhere else as employees instead. Then there's no business. No employees.
  
• When minimum wage is raised higher many of those jobs simply disappear, and youth unemployment rises dramatically. And high youth unemployment is bad for society.

Have you gotten around to digging up the numbers on how many minimum wage workers in Alberta are over 26 years old or have children? Or are you one of those people for whom numbers and facts don't matter, and it's all about abstractions and sentiment?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Umm I think a citation is required here. You're basically saying that the cost on a large pop at McDonalds is less then a penny

same on a coffee.

The most expensive part of the drink are paying for is the cup. The fountain pop costs rotten Ronny around $0.03 including the cup, if you are paying $1.50 for that drink they have sold it for 50 times what it cost materials wise to make it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The most expensive part of the drink are paying for is the cup. The fountain pop costs rotten Ronny around $0.03 including the cup, if you are paying $1.50 for that drink they have sold it for 5000 times what it cost materials wise to make it.

This isn't 1855. You are paying for more than just the raw materials that went into that cup of pop.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The most expensive part of the drink are paying for is the cup. The fountain pop costs rotten Ronny around $0.03 including the cup, if you are paying $1.50 for that drink they have sold it for 5000 times what it cost materials wise to make it.

50 times.

Multiples and percentages are different things.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The most expensive part of the drink are paying for is the cup. The fountain pop costs rotten Ronny around $0.03 including the cup, if you are paying $1.50 for that drink they have sold it for 5000 times what it cost materials wise to make it.

I hope your job doesn't involve math.

[CliffFletcher]

The funny thing about turning this into a social justice argument is that countries that implement a living wage and make if very difficult to hire and fire employees end up with a more starkly divided economy. You have some people with decent-paying and secure jobs. Then you have a bunch of people with temporary work, or no jobs at all.

The walled world of work

...Youth unemployment in France (using the ILO definition of youth as 15-24-year-olds) is 25% and has been scandalously high for three decades. Occasionally the government tinkers with labour rules, but voters have little appetite for serious reform. Ms Moreau rejects the idea that insiders enjoy too many legal protections, and that this is why outsiders find it so hard to break in. She blames exploitative employers, and doubts that any government, left or right, will fix the problem.

Rigid labour rules are tougher on young workers than older ones. People without much experience find it harder to demonstrate that they are worth employing. And when companies know they cannot easily get rid of duds, they become reluctant to hire anyone at all. This is especially true when the economy is not growing fast and they have to bear the huge fixed cost of all the older permanent employees they took on in easier times...

...Trade unions often favour a minimum wage. This can help those who already have jobs, but if it is set too high it can crowd out those with the fewest skills and the least experience, who tend to be young. It makes more sense to subsidise wages through a negative income tax, thus swelling take-home pay for the lowliest workers without making them more expensive for the employer. But this costs taxpayers money, so many governments prefer to raise the legal minimum wage, passing the cost on to others. America’s Democratic Party is pushing to double the federal minimum wage, to $15 an hour—a certain job-killer.

The Economist

[peter12]

Yeah, a higher minimum wage just has the effect of crystallizing differences between relative skill sets.

Who is going to get to keep that $15/hr job? Probably the kid with a BA. Who is going to lose that $15/hr job? The lady who never finished high school.

The minimum wage basically acts like a price floor, and someone without the skill set to penetrate that floor will essentially remain unemployable forever.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by nik-

50 times.

Multiples and percentages are different things.

My bad, but I think captain got what I was saying

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

My bad, but I think captain got what I was saying

Yes, we understand exactly. We understand that you have an exaggerated sense of what the profit margins are in the restaurant business.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The most expensive part of the drink are paying for is the cup. The fountain pop costs rotten Ronny around $0.03 including the cup, if you are paying $1.50 for that drink they have sold it for 50 times what it cost materials wise to make it.

Ok, but you also have to incorporate all costs into selling that pop. Wages, power, rent, marketing, all the other workers, shipping of the materials, purchasing of the materials.

You can't just sit there and say the syrup costs three cents and we sell it for a buck 50 and that's the costs.

Its the same with hamburgers and fries.

Its just like any form of accounting, you have to add incremental costs at some point.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by peter12

This isn't 1855. You are paying for more than just the raw materials that went into that cup of pop.

No but at the current wage an employee has to pour 8 drinks/hour to cover his wage, if he pours 2-5 more he has likely covered the utility charges for that hour as well. At $15/hour he has to pour about 11 cups per hour to cover his wage.

[nik-]

The best way to gauge the success of your business really is to take the profit margin on your far and away most profitable single item, remove the majority of the associated costs, and call it a day.