Alberta Politics Thread

[chemgear]

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...onomic-outlook

Ceci pleads patience as Alberta's economic slide drags on

But the province’s record-setting deficit — $10.4 billion in the first quarter of the 2016-17 fiscal year — and increasing debt levels have contributed to credit downgrades from rating agencies DBRS, Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s.

A report by DBRS from earlier this month raised concerns about the government’s extended timeline for returning to balanced books only by 2024, as well as the possibility of a weak recovery in oil prices and “unproven” expenditure restraint targets.

“Should oil prices fail to recover on a sustained basis without an adequate fiscal response and resulting in faster-than-planned debt increases, this could lead to further downward pressure on the ratings,” reads the report, which suggested additional tax measures may be needed to accompany spending cuts.

[Resolute 14]

Of course Ceci pleads patience. After three more years of sitting on his ass, the mess will become someone else's problem.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Of course Ceci pleads patience. After three more years of sitting on his ass, the mess will become someone else's problem.

Or maybe the hope is that the big oil companies will see that eliminating jobs to create political pressure to decrease their taxes with the aspiration of increasing profits is not worth the lost profits? Oil demand has not dropped with the drop in prices, oil and gas companies would still make multi billion dollar profits without laying people off, they are doing so for their own gains. The longer we give them this leverage over us the quicker the race to the bottom will get for the middle class.

Edit: there was originally a pretty big typo in there, although most here probably disagreed with my post before they even got that far

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Or maybe the hope is that the big oil companies will see that eliminating jobs to create political pressure to decrease their taxes with the aspiration of increasing profits is not worth the lost profits? Oil demand has not dropped with the drop in prices, oil and gas companies would still make multi billion dollar profits without paying people off, they are doing so for their own gains. The longer we give them this leverage over us the quicker the race to the bottom will get for the middle class.

This is satire, right?

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by Zarley

This is satire, right?

I sure hope so.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Or maybe the hope is that the big oil companies will see that eliminating jobs to create political pressure to decrease their taxes with the aspiration of increasing profits is not worth the lost profits? Oil demand has not dropped with the drop in prices, oil and gas companies would still make multi billion dollar profits without paying people off, they are doing so for their own gains. The longer we give them this leverage over us the quicker the race to the bottom will get for the middle class.

Satire has to be.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Zarley

This is satire, right?

No, just an honest assessment of what is going on. If you'd like to discuss which parts you disagree with, perhaps elaborating on your views and presenting facts to support your opposing position would be a more effective way of engaging in a debate. Or stick with drive by posts that come off as "I disagree because it's not what I think". Up to you

[Slava]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

No, just an honest assessment of what is going on. If you'd like to discuss which parts you disagree with, perhaps elaborating on your views and presenting facts to support your opposing position would be a more effective way of engaging in a debate. Or stick with drive by posts that come off as "I disagree because it's not what I think". Up to you

Can you just show the evidence that these companies are still making "billions" in profits? It's a bloodbath.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

No, just an honest assessment of what is going on.

There was nothing honest about it. What oil company is making billions in profit right now? Suncor is probably one of the healthiest, and they have lost something like 700 million dollars in the last year.

Layoffs aren't happening because some CEO wants a tax cut. They are happening to try and stem the damage primarily from the oil rout. The thing is, NDP policies have done nothing to help. It would be like going to the hospital with a gun shot wound, and the doctors decided to take a scalpel and cut you open somewhere else to take out a pound of flesh.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Zarley

This is satire, right?

Nope.

It is, however, a really good example of how deep the rhetoric and propaganda of the anti-oil groups has seeped into the masses.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Or maybe the hope is that the big oil companies will see that eliminating jobs to create political pressure to decrease their taxes with the aspiration of increasing profits is not worth the lost profits? Oil demand has not dropped with the drop in prices, oil and gas companies would still make multi billion dollar profits without laying people off, they are doing so for their own gains. The longer we give them this leverage over us the quicker the race to the bottom will get for the middle class.

Edit: there was originally a pretty big typo in there, although most here probably disagreed with my post before they even got that far

Bolded, is a pretty brash & contentious comment in this climate.

Which Alberta O&G companies are posting these Billion dollar profits?

[calf]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Or maybe the hope is that the big oil companies will see that eliminating jobs to create political pressure to decrease their taxes with the aspiration of increasing profits is not worth the lost profits? Oil demand has not dropped with the drop in prices, oil and gas companies would still make multi billion dollar profits without laying people off, they are doing so for their own gains. The longer we give them this leverage over us the quicker the race to the bottom will get for the middle class.

Edit: there was originally a pretty big typo in there, although most here probably disagreed with my post before they even got that far

You're right in that companies use layoffs to increase profits (or in many cases, cut losses, avoid losses, maintain a certain amount of profit). You are mistaken in thinking layoffs are part of a game where employees are pawns to try and get a corporation what it wants from the government. And thinking that companies would still make billions.

If all things (revenues and other expenses) are equal and a company cuts its payroll by 1 million, using th GoA's 12% rate, that company increases its profits by $880k. If we go back to 10%, it increases by just 20k to $900k. The pre-tax actions, whether it is higher prices or lower costs will always have a bigger effect on the company's profits than a lower tax rate.

[iggy_oi]

http://www.suncor.com/investor-centr...eport_EN_FINAL

For those who are unfamiliar with profits vs cash flow from operations here's a kinda brief explanation:
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/060105.asp

[calf]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

http://www.suncor.com/investor-centr...eport_EN_FINAL

For those who are unfamiliar with profits vs cash flow from operations here's a kinda brief explanation:
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/060105.asp

Suncor is fortunate to have refining and marketing to buoy their cash flows. Many companies in this city, especially the service companies and smaller players don't have that luxury.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nope.

It is, however, a really good example of how deep the rhetoric and propaganda of the anti-oil groups has seeped into the masses.

I'm not anti-oil, I just don't agree with it being relied on to be the backbone of our economy as it is too financially unstable of an industry and commodity.

[cam_wmh]

Suncor might be the only one. TransCanada, CNRL perhaps.

But still, "multi billion dollar profits; oil & gas companies" is hyperbole.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

http://www.suncor.com/investor-centr...eport_EN_FINAL

For those who are unfamiliar with profits vs cash flow from operations here's a kinda brief explanation:
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/060105.asp

I'm not reading the annual report at 10pm on a Saturday night but in 2015 Suncor lost money. Revenues were down by about $10bn and on a per share basis they were -0.73 as opposed to $2.28 in 2014. I also think its a little disingenuous to pick what is arguably the strongest company in the sector and say "everything is fine" based on their stability.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

But still, "multi billion dollar profits; oil & gas companies" is hyperbole.

I meant for it to be read as the industry itself, poorly worded on my part

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I meant for it to be read as the industry itself, poorly worded on my part

You bet it was. You also misread the thread title, with the region of discourse.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Slava

I also think its a little disingenuous to pick what is arguably the strongest company in the sector and say "everything is fine" based on their stability.

Nevermind it's not even saying that "everything is fine" and in fact saying that companies are actively laying people off with the specific intent of applying political pressure in some kind of conspiracy.

He lost me after that. Something about billions still being made and them leveraging over the common man and the middle class.

I was actually surprised that "big oil" wasn't capitalized in the post to be honest.