McGratton: Fighting will be gone in 2-3 years

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

...Though I fully admit, I'm a huge fan of fighting in hockey and always have been. I actually think the reduction in fighting/emotion in the game is part of the reason I watch a lot more basketball now during the winter. If there isn't going to be contact, I may as well watch something that is interesting. I don't enjoy a defensive 1-0 chess match between two teams that are indifferent towards each other.

So you choose to watch basketball??

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Vox

Respect is idiotic? WOW.

The vets cared that a younger guy goes into the hotel room before them?

I had to read that Chara story a few times just to be clear of this cartoon-like pecking order behavior. That is literally some 1980's Hulk Hogan locker room BS right there. Can't believe that level of pettiness exists.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So you choose to watch basketball??

There's no contact in basketball, but it's exciting with points every few seconds and most games coming down to the wire.

When you take the contact out of hockey and both teams are playing not lose rather than win, what's exciting about that? Nothing.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There's no contact in basketball, but it's exciting with points every few seconds and most games coming down to the wire.

When you take the contact out of hockey and both teams are playing not lose rather than win, what's exciting about that? Nothing.

My main issue is that the game means essentially nothing until the final 5 minutes. Scoring 100 points is fine, but most of the points are essentially meaningless. The final 5 minutes is where the most meaningful play is. Both teams go on "runs" at various times, but unless it's a ridiculous mismatch, they both end up within 2 or 3 baskets of each other near the end.

The game should be 5 minutes long, that's all.

As for the fighting thing, I'll say this once more: pre-planned fights with goons is pointless and meaningless. Having two players organically come to rough-housing after tough battles in front of the net or in the corner should never be heavily discouraged. That's part of the game and it's good for the fans and players alike (gets out the aggression so that we don't resort to stick violence). If that rough-housing should escalate into a fight, so be it. Punish both players accordingly and move on. Don't encourage fighting, but don't outlaw it.

Basically, the status quo as things are now is totally fine by me. Pre-ordained fights are stupid.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Agreed.
In fact that's an issue with the entire interview.
He comes off as quite bitter.
Slams places he played, and players nowadays.
There's a thin line between having valid concerns about how the game is changing, and seeming like the game has passed you by.

At times it seemed like the latter.

Seriously?

You and I heard completely different interviews then.

he even specifically stated that the "game owes me nothing" and had afforded him a great life.

Also he was saying that money has changed a whole bunch of the game...and he is dead on with that as well.

What he was saying is that the passion and intensity of the game is disappearing with both the removal of fighting, but even moreso with the removal of hitting which is also slowly contaminating the game.


Again, I agree with him 100%. The game used to require not just skill and skating ability, it was necessary to be somewhat tough and rugged at times.

There has never ever been more "soft" players in the game. Guys that wont even come close to throwing a check.

I know my interest in the game is way way down from where it once was because its a entirely different game than it was for the majority of the NHL's existence. That's OK if that's what the fans want....I'm just not so sure it is.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Seriously?

You and I heard completely different interviews then.

he even specifically stated that the "game owes me nothing" and had afforded him a great life.

Also he was saying that money has changed a whole bunch of the game...and he is dead on with that as well.

What he was saying is that the passion and intensity of the game is disappearing with both the removal of fighting, but even moreso with the removal of hitting which is also slowly contaminating the game.


Again, I agree with him 100%. The game used to require not just skill and skating ability, it was necessary to be somewhat tough and rugged at times.

There has never ever been more "soft" players in the game. Guys that wont even come close to throwing a check.

I know my interest in the game is way way down from where it once was because its a entirely different game than it was for the majority of the NHL's existence. That's OK if that's what the fans want....I'm just not so sure it is.

I don't think guys be unwilling to throw as many checks anymore is a function of them being soft, I think it's a function of the new hit to the head rules and general crack down on obstruction. You go out of your way to make a hit, you are going to spend time in the box. The hits have to be perfectly timed and placed or your team is down a man. You hurt the guy one a borderline hit, you're also going to be suspended.

I think it sucks and makes the game less enjoyable, but that's the new NHL. Blame the league, but calling players soft is kind of a joke.

[PeteMoss]

For the majority of the history of hockey guys like McGrattan were not in the NHL. Back in the day the tough guys could also play a regular shift. The one dimensional two shifts a game tough guy had what - a 20 year lifespan. McGrattan is lucky he came up in that time where he could make some money.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I wouldn't be surprised. McGrats is a Canadian. And like any Canadian, Swede, Fin, Swiss, etc. playing in a violent ghetto would be a culture shock. Maybe for a Russian the culture shock wouldn't be the ghetto itself, but it's likely very scary for a lot of players

Wait... what cities have hockey arenas in ghettos?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Wait... what cities have hockey arenas in ghettos?

If the arena is in the city limits of Stockton, Stockton does.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Wait... what cities have hockey arenas in ghettos?

Chicago?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Wait... what cities have hockey arenas in ghettos?

Detroit and Jersey

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That's what I miss about the 80 and 90's game. It's not the goons pounding each others heads in, it's that anything could happen. It was pure emotion. That's completely gone from the game.

Though I fully admit, I'm a huge fan of fighting in hockey and always have been. I actually think the reduction in fighting/emotion in the game is part of the reason I watch a lot more basketball now during the winter. If there isn't going to be contact, I may as well watch something that is interesting. I don't enjoy a defensive 1-0 chess match between two teams that are indifferent towards each other.

Get out.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I can understand why they are getting rid of fighting. Still only scratching the surface on concussions, however. Get rid of hard shoulder pads. Slow down the game (I would bet that if concussions were properly diagnosed in the past, that the NHL has seen a spike in concussions since the red-line was eliminated).

Personally, I grudgingly accept that fighting is being worked out of the game. One thing I will miss is definitely the raw emotion. Iginla in '04 fighting in every series. Hunter taking the team on his back and giving the Flames the the sense of security on the ice after so many years of their goons having their way. McCarthy claiming the 'heavyweight championship' from Probert.

I have to agree with McGrattan on some points here. One reason I really loved the NHL was that it was an 'all in one' sport. You had Boxing, Soccer and Football on the ice all at the same time. It was that rare combination of finesse mixed with bloodbath. You would get out of your seat because of an amazing play by a talented player, or a big fight, or a big hit. There was so much to like about Hockey - so many moments of sheer emotion.

I used to like Basketball a lot back in the day. Then I grew up and realized it was devoid of a lot of passion. I don't need to see 200+ points being scored in a game (both sides included) to find interest. I need sensational plays and emotion in the game. I much prefer Soccer for the plays and the emotion - and though I truly love 'the beautiful game' - it just doesn't compare to what Canada's game provides.

The NHL is definitely getting softer. I am withholding whether it is a good thing or a bad thing. It is definitely a different thing. One good outcome should be that the skilled players will not have their careers shortened - but I look back at some other really skilled players from the past and I can't really think of many that got their careers shortened because of fighting. Most got their careers shortened because of the hits. As long as the NHL wants to market itself as this super-fast game, this is going to continue happening unless they completely eliminate checking.

I have for a couple of years looked at removing fighting as promoting player safety while eliminating the red-line (and the two-line pass) to a country making fully automatic weapons illegal to own, but liberalizing the procurement of any other gun. Just my thoughts anyways.

Hockey was hockey with the fighting. This isn't that hockey any longer. This is a different beast, and though I still love the game, it is a different game. Faster, more skilled than it has ever been, but less emotional and probably just as dangerous as it ever was, if not more so. Best thing the NHL did for safety was identifying and dealing with concussions much better. Back in the day, you just got your bell rung, sat for a shift or two, and then went back out. That alone has probably saved more careers than the elimination of fighting, IMO.

[curves2000]

A few takes I got from the interview.

1) I agree with Big Ern that the game has changed in a lot of ways, sometimes not for the better.

2) I SUSPECT the rule or respect factor when it comes to the vet's and the elevator at the hotel is as follows. When the 2 buses arrive with players, coaches, management, press, trainers etc your talking about 40-50 people. The idea is for the young guys to wait until the veteran players have all been able to get up to their floors. If every rookie went on his own one or two at a time, it would take forever to get upstairs with a few elevators. I am not saying I AGREE with this but sports and life in general has lessons and little rules that people follow.

3) The statement about the AHL was partially valid in a lot of ways. He played last season in San Diego for $600k, a city that is fantastic and the travel isn't so bad. I suspect some of the bitterness may be for not being able to secure a more lucrative deal elsewhere in the AHL or in Europe. Making $300k a year in the AHL or in a gorgeous city in Europe for a large club is a different scenario than making $50 000 CAD in the Brittish Elite League. I do suspect that if the San Diego Gulls were offering him a $300k a year deal than he would have signed and traveled to Stockton.

I am a big fan of Brian McGrattan but sometimes I think he has a challenge letting things go. I had mentioned in another thread about his twitter feud with Damien Cox. Even during the interview when Boomer asked him about continuing to fight after getting knocked out, fully knowing the health effects and the fact that he has a 1-year-old, he deflected to never backing down. I am a pro enforcer, am ok with fighting and am a big fan of his but sooner or later you got to look after yourself and your family health wise. Before anybody question's my thoughts on this, understand that the league he is going to play in for the next 2 years is a full on fighting league. His role there is to sell tickets, get the crowd into the games and to intimidate opponents. He is going to be getting into scraps all the time and at 35 and counting, with all the battles he has been in, you got think that he should be careful.

In any event it's his business. I am really looking forward to the documentary coming out this weekend though.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The vets cared that a younger guy goes into the hotel room before them?

I had to read that Chara story a few times just to be clear of this cartoon-like pecking order behavior. That is literally some 1980's Hulk Hogan locker room BS right there. Can't believe that level of pettiness exists.

Which is why I said it is no surprise players don't speak out against fighting if you have veterans who berate you for something as simple as that.

Now could you imagine how it would look if a player spoke out against fighting? I'm sure a vocal crowd would take that as a slight that said player doesn't want to stand up for them or the team.

Just silly stuff. Players should have zero input in regards to fighting because we'd still have players with no helmets and goalies with no masks if we cared what players thought.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The vets cared that a younger guy goes into the hotel room before them?

I had to read that Chara story a few times just to be clear of this cartoon-like pecking order behavior. That is literally some 1980's Hulk Hogan locker room BS right there. Can't believe that level of pettiness exists.

Maybe it had something to do with sneaking mistresses into the room?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by curves2000

...I am a big fan of Brian McGrattan but sometimes I think he has a challenge letting things go. I had mentioned in another thread about his twitter feud with Damien Cox. Even during the interview when Boomer asked him about continuing to fight after getting knocked out, fully knowing the health effects and the fact that he has a 1-year-old, he deflected to never backing down. I am a pro enforcer, am ok with fighting and am a big fan of his but sooner or later you got to look after yourself and your family health wise. Before anybody question's my thoughts on this, understand that the league he is going to play in for the next 2 years is a full on fighting league. His role there is to sell tickets, get the crowd into the games and to intimidate opponents. He is going to be getting into scraps all the time and at 35 and counting, with all the battles he has been in, you got think that he should be careful...

This is the part of the interview that I found most disturbing. McGrattan justifies his chosen career by insisting that he is chasing a dream (still??), and that he seems to be worried about losing his kid's respect if he does not do everything he can to fulfill it. He says at one point something to the effect of: "how can I expect my kid to follow after his own dreams if I turn around and quit?"

Is he serious? As a parent and a child I find that train of thought incredibly disturbing. I would never set my own life in danger just to ensure that my kids learn a valuable life lesson, because it is so, SO unnecessary. I think I would more likely have lost respect from my father had he not taken every precaution to protect our family at the expense of quashing my own ambition. It's a very strange rationale to employ in an effort to justify his decisions, but it really strikes me as quite hallow and ultimately selfish. The message I received from the interview was that in the end, McGrattan fights because he loves fighting, and he won't let anyone or anything interfere with that. That is a borderline obsession.

[Ozy_Flame]

Yeah no kidding, making the NHL should be enough of a goal - only an elite minority ever get to do that. Pretty sure when his kid is old enough to understand, he'll be proud enough.

[Cole436]

I thought it was interesting when he said that during his time with the Flames management had to pull himself in with other veterans in regards to them making the young players feel uncomfortable. I suspect he was talking about Baertschi here.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I thought it was interesting when he said that during his time with the Flames management had to pull himself in with other veterans in regards to them making the young players feel uncomfortable. I suspect he was talking about Baertschi here.

I don't think so. I remember from a few years ago a story about when Ben Hanowski joined the team in the wake of the Iginla trade that basically accused the veterans in the room of alienating him. I believe that part of the correction which took place to ameliorate the cultural issues in the dressing room at the time addressed this and were coincident with Giordano's installation as team captain.