Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

But it's not just 3 games.. These 3 games purely solidify his stance that he is among the NHL elite.. NOW! Not 2 or 3 years from now... Now... And has proven he can do it at the NHL level consistently by his performance over 160 NHL games and now the class of the world.

Pay him like it before you piss him off. I get he's a RFA and has no rights, doesn't mean he can't hold a grudge. He's a man first.

Just protect yourself or the team by making sure there's a limited NTC so you can dump him if an issue arises (lack of commitment.. Yeah right.. Or injury or whatever).

Give him the 8x8 now in trade for a limited NTC where he has to submit a list every year.

You know who else has looked very good atthis tournament so far is Nathon McKinnon. I beleive he just signed for 7 years at $6.3 mill per. I love Johnny hockey but he should not be making $1.7 million more than McKinnon considering the RFA status of the contract.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by transplant99

A hold out would be entirely on him though. He would be the one "looking bad".

"Public pressure" will have zero effect on this management team.... as it certainly hasn't so far and nothing has changed in that situation. He signs what they think is market price...or he sits. His call.

Why would it be entirely on him? Do you have some inside information on the situation?

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

You know who else has looked very good atthis tournament so far is Nathon McKinnon. I beleive he just signed for 7 years at $6.3 mill per. I love Johnny hockey but he should not be making $1.7 million more than McKinnon considering the RFA status of the contract.

When you consider he's been better than Mackinnon in this tournament and has been far better in the NHL, he's arguably worth much more than Mackinnon.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

When you consider he's been better than Mackinnon in this tournament and has been far better in the NHL, he's arguably worth much more than Mackinnon.

Fair.

Also - for fun.. Gaudreau played his first full season at the age of 21. McKimmon turned 21 two weeks ago.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

*potential franchise player

I, for one, don't want to pay a player for "what ifs". He's gonna get paid, no doubt, but a million here and a million there is another top six forward for the future. Paying a player for potential is Oiler territory IMO

Is there any doubt that he is an elite offensive player? All star winger for years to come?

If you seriously doubt that, then you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I can't believe people seriously think Gaudreau is deserving of an 8x8. Wow!

So you would rather trade him then have him at 8M?

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Fair.

Also - for fun.. Gaudreau played his first full season at the age of 21. McKimmon turned 21 two weeks ago.

Sure. Not sure what relevance that has on contract value. Today, Johnny is the superior player and still improving. I wouldn't bet money on Mackinnon ever reaching Johnny's current level.

Not that it's relevant. We aren't paying for potential, right?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

I
So you would rather trade him then have him at 8M?

For 8 years? You have to think about it. The Flames are fortunate to have Bennett and Tkachuk in the system. Those two go away and I'd be begging them to sign Gaudreau for that contract now. There is a cap though, there is other big contracts to sign. We hand Gaudreau eight million per season, that brings up the congrats those guys sign.

These things reverberate down the line. "Oh well it's only overpaying Gaudreau by half a million.." well that means the next hot shot young player wants a similar or closer deal, and that half turns into 1, into 1.5 etc. Gaudreau is a special fish, but he isn't the only fish, even special one, in the sea for the Flames right now.

Thankfully the Flames don't have to trade him, then can sit and wait. One day, one week, one month, into Christmas, into the New Year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Is there any doubt that he is an elite offensive player? All star winger for years to come?

No doubt he's an elite offensive player. He is also a below-average defensive player, for reasons that are not his fault and cannot be remedied. The fact that he's not an actual liability in the defensive zone is a testament to his skill – but he won't get a whole lot better than that unless he has an unprecedented growth spurt in his 20s. That tends to reduce his market value.

Again, there's no doubt he's a winger who deserves a spot in the All-Star Game. However, he has never been named to the NHL All-Star Team, and has some pretty tough competition to get there. (Last year, he was beaten out by Benn and Ovechkin.) So it depends on which definition of 'All-Star' you use. And not everybody who plays in the All-Star Game is worth $8 million a year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Sure. Not sure what relevance that has on contract value.

It's simple. MacKinnon has more years to develop and improve than Gaudreau has. Gaudreau is fast approaching the age at which forwards' offensive production tends to peak. MacKinnon won't be there for a few years yet.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Sure. Not sure what relevance that has on contract value. Today, Johnny is the superior player and still improving. I wouldn't bet money on Mackinnon ever reaching Johnny's current level.

100% I believe McKimmon can score 30 goals and hit 80 points. He's already done 24 and 63. And he's a center, a much more important position.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

But it's not just 3 games.. These 3 games purely solidify his stance that he is among the NHL elite.. NOW! Not 2 or 3 years from now... Now... And has proven he can do it at the NHL level consistently by his performance over 160 NHL games and now the class of the world.

No he hasn't. Not based on home and road performance.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I don't see how the World Cup is going to have any impact on his negotiations. He's basically the top of the class for his age bracket/contract status. It's basically 6.8M to what Tarasenko makes. That's what it was before this tournament started, and that's what it will be afterwards.

The World Cup was a way for Johnny to show he can play with and against the best and be the best player on the ice.

Players like him don't come along very often. I don't know what he should get, but I'd venture a strong guess he'll get more now than he would have gotten before the World Cup started.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Why would it be entirely on him? Do you have some inside information on the situation?

Uhhh...cause only the player can be the one holding out?

There is an offer for him to sign right this second....but even if he doesn't he is already qualified by the team.

So only one side here can choose not to play.

[GioforPM]

Mackinnon has been really good in the tournament, and he arguably has been close to, if not as as good as Johnny. They just have completely different styles and roles. Mackinnon isn't as flashy, but he is a speed demon, has great hands, seems decent defensively and is pretty good at faceoffs.

The other thing about the tournament is that Gaudreau is probably benefitting from all the attention paid to the McDavid line. I imagine McDavid is getting the best checkers from each team, giving Gaudreau a bit more room.

Man I hate that this sounds like I'm diminishing Gaudreau - I'm not. He's been the best player on the team IMO. I just don't think this tournament has much bearing.

[MoreDrank]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No doubt he's an elite offensive player. He is also a below-average defensive player, for reasons that are not his fault and cannot be remedied. The fact that he's not an actual liability in the defensive zone is a testament to his skill – but he won't get a whole lot better than that unless he has an unprecedented growth spurt in his 20s. That tends to reduce his market value.

Again, there's no doubt he's a winger who deserves a spot in the All-Star Game. However, he has never been named to the NHL All-Star Team, and has some pretty tough competition to get there. (Last year, he was beaten out by Benn and Ovechkin.) So it depends on which definition of 'All-Star' you use. And not everybody who plays in the All-Star Game is worth $8 million a year.

You are talking about Gaudreau right? Why do you think he's a below-average defensive player?

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Uhhh...cause only the player can be the one holding out?

There is an offer for him to sign right this second....but even if he doesn't he is already qualified by the team.

So only one side here can choose not to play.

Not necessarily. For all we know, Gaudreau is asking for fair market value and the team is lowballing him. Since the numbers haven't been released, we have no way of knowing who is asking fair market value and who isn't. I suspect based on the numbers they're looking at, both parties feel they're being fair and the other isn't.

It's further possible (although I admit this is completely speculative) that both sides know what a fair market value is for Gaudreau, but the team doesn't have enough cap room to make it happen yet. They could be trying to move a contract in order to free up the room to sign Gaudreau.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Not necessarily. For all we know, Gaudreau is asking for fair market value and the team is lowballing him. Since the numbers haven't been released, we have no way of knowing who is asking fair market value and who isn't. I suspect based on the numbers they're looking at, both parties feel they're being fair and the other isn't.

It's further possible (although I admit this is completely speculative) that both sides know what a fair market value is for Gaudreau, but the team doesn't have enough cap room to make it happen yet. They could be trying to move a contract in order to free up the room to sign Gaudreau.

What is the maximum the team can offer him as it stands to be cap compliant this season?

I realize there are a lot of variables and time related changes possible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

You are talking about Gaudreau right? Why do you think he's a below-average defensive player?

He's too small to initiate a good defensive check or body a player off the puc, and to win board battles. He doesn't block shots as a rule. He is reasonably good on the backcheck in the neutral zone where takeaways occur.

He's not horrible, but his size means he won't be that effective as a defensive winger. If he was a C he might be able to play a small man defensive game like Bergeron or Dastyuk, but he's not.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Not necessarily. For all we know, Gaudreau is asking for fair market value and the team is lowballing him. Since the numbers haven't been released, we have no way of knowing who is asking fair market value and who isn't. I suspect based on the numbers they're looking at, both parties feel they're being fair and the other isn't.

It's further possible (although I admit this is completely speculative) that both sides know what a fair market value is for Gaudreau, but the team doesn't have enough cap room to make it happen yet. They could be trying to move a contract in order to free up the room to sign Gaudreau.

I suppose that could be the case but is it in ANY way probable? No. If any of the speculation is to be believed, the Flames are 6.5 per at the very least

Fair market value...thats an interesting term because apparently it means different things to different people. That's been debated ad nauseum.

There is no way that the cap is an issue right now so thats a non-starter. With the club allowed to go 10% over the ceiling until the season begins they would have to be offering more than 15 million per for it to come into play.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

What is the maximum the team can offer him as it stands to be cap compliant this season?

I realize there are a lot of variables and time related changes possible.

According to GeneralFanager.com it's $8,594,601. However, according to CapFriendly.com it's $7,964,100. I believe the reason for the variance is that CapFriendly has taking SOB's buyout into account, while GeneralFanager has yet to do so.

It's hypothetically possible that both parties are looking at $8M, but would need to move some money in order to do so.

Even if we take a much more reasonable $7.25M AAV as the assumption, that would only give the Flames $714k to work with to sign Freddie Hamilton (even without a raise, he's looking at $625-640k) and potentially another D man.