[News] With the 2016 6th OA pick Flames select LW Matthew Tkachuk

[Enoch Root]

Draisaitl was ranked 4th by most.

Tkachuk was ranked 4th by most.

I would argue this year was a deeper draft at the front end.

Hard to compare though.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Highly debatable. I would argue Tkachuk had much more hype than Draisaitl.

Hype, maybe. Doesn't mean he was a better prospect. I also personally believe it is likely that the Flames had Dubois ahead of Tkachuk this year as well.

But it's really irrelevant.

[FlamesNation23]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hype, maybe. Doesn't mean he was a better prospect. I also personally believe it is likely that the Flames had Dubois ahead of Tkachuk this year as well.

But it's really irrelevant.

Thats fair but Im pretty sure flames had tkachuk at 4. When there were all those talks about trading up to 4 during the draft, i think it was mentioned somewhere that the target was probably tkachuk. Probably pure speculation though

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Thats fair but Im pretty sure flames had tkachuk at 4. When there were all those talks about trading up to 4 during the draft, i think it was mentioned somewhere that the target was probably tkachuk. Probably pure speculation though

Without solicitation, Burke mentioned Dubois specifically in the radio as a guy right there with Tkachuk, and Craig Button had Dubois at 4 ahead of Tkachuk on his rankings which historically track well with Flames drafting. Lastly the Flames value centres above wingers. We'll never know the exact order though.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

How to lead a team? How to be a teams #1 forward? This whole thing about players not being able to learn more in junior is such a joke, all kids that age have deficiencies in their game that they need to work on and the CHL is as good of a place as any to work on them.

Except he won't necessarily be asked to learn pro habits by his junior coach. He won't necessarily need to work much on his defensive game because his coach may start him heavily in the offensive zone and on the powerplay. He wasn't learning all about defense last year as his line held the puck in the offensive zone for the majority of their time on the ice. His junior coach's first priorities are not teaching Tkachuk pro habits, rounding Tkachuk's game. His junior coach's first priority is winning games and the way he utilizes Tkachuk to win games may not teach Tkachuk as much as playing against the best players in the world will.

In the NHL Tkachuk would practice with some of the best players in the world and would be developed by elite coaches who have his long term growth in mind. In the NHL he'll play with and against the best in the world. If he's close to NHL ready then he may just learn more and develop more quickly by moving to the superior league.

There are very good arguments as to why Tkachuk won't learn nearly as much about being a good NHLer in junior as he would in the NHL.

Plenty of posters were saying the exact same thing you are now about Tkachuk back before Monahan's training camp. Sometimes highly drafted prospects are special players who can handle the jump to the best league in the world. There are some reasons as to why we think Tkachuk may be one of those elite prospects. Plenty of people had him as a top 4-5 prospect in a draft that had a very strong top end. Usually players of that pedigree go straight to the NHL unless they are a longer term project (like a Blake Wheeler drafted top 5 out of High School) or they need to fill out. Tkachuk has NHL size, NHL skill, a high compete level and good physicality. IMO the only reasons to think he wasn't going to make the team is if our team was insanely deep on the wings or if his skating still needed work. Based on Penticton I'd say his skating looks good enough to get by in the NHL.

I think he stands a very good chance of making the Calgary Flames.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Except he won't necessarily be asked to learn pro habits by his junior coach. He won't necessarily need to work much on his defensive game because his coach may start him heavily in the offensive zone and on the powerplay. He wasn't learning all about defense last year as his line held the puck in the offensive zone for the majority of their time on the ice. His junior coach's first priorities are not teaching Tkachuk pro habits, rounding Tkachuk's game. His junior coach's first priority is winning games and the way he utilizes Tkachuk to win games may not teach Tkachuk as much as playing against the best players in the world will.

In the NHL Tkachuk would practice with some of the best players in the world and would be developed by elite coaches who have his long term growth in mind. In the NHL he'll play with and against the best in the world. If he's close to NHL ready then he may just learn more and develop more quickly by moving to the superior league.

There are very good arguments as to why Tkachuk won't learn nearly as much about being a good NHLer in junior as he would in the NHL.

Plenty of posters were saying the exact same thing you are now about Tkachuk back before Monahan's training camp. Sometimes highly drafted prospects are special players who can handle the jump to the best league in the world. There are some reasons as to why we think Tkachuk may be one of those elite prospects. Plenty of people had him as a top 4-5 prospect in a draft that had a very strong top end. Usually players of that pedigree go straight to the NHL unless they are a longer term project (like a Blake Wheeler drafted top 5 out of High School) or they need to fill out. Tkachuk has NHL size, NHL skill, a high compete level and good physicality. IMO the only reasons to think he wasn't going to make the team is if our team was insanely deep on the wings or if his skating still needed work. Based on Penticton I'd say his skating looks good enough to get by in the NHL.

I think he stands a very good chance of making the Calgary Flames.

I'm not saying he should go back no matter what, just saying this "nothing left to learn in Jr." stuff is utter garbage.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I'm not saying he should go back no matter what, just saying this "nothing left to learn in Jr." stuff is utter garbage.

But Crosby was too good for junior his second year and it stunted his development.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

But Crosby was too good for junior his second year and it stunted his development.

Stunted it so bad that he had a 100 point NHL season as a rookie? Or are you being sarcastic?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Whether Tkachuk makes the team has very little to do with discipline and everything to do with whether he can generate offense during preseason. He is creating scoring chances and banging in goals during preseason, he will start game 1 on Sam Bennett's wing and get a tryout.

Doesn't mean he makes the team.

Sam Reinhart a couple years back who was a better prospect than Tkachuk had a 9 day tryout, and had 0 points and got sent down before an ELC slide year was burned.

Leon Draisaitl who was also a better prospect than Tkachuk got a 37 game tryout, only had 9 points, and got sent down before a UFA year was burned.

Will Tkachuk benefit from the extra year in Junior? IMO - NO. But does that mean he won't benefit from the extra year of training? That's a different story, a quicker, stronger more explosive Tkachuk has a better chance of making an impact in the NHL. There's the added benefit of starting him in Stockton in 2017-18 where they can work with him on on-ice details, because he is a December birthday like Poirier.

Exactly ... well said.

And I'd add to this that I think the NHL is changing a bit on the young player front.

If you think a player will be a core piece (top picks) you're better to get that entry level deal down to two years with a year that gets thrown away and get the player to that bridge deal without three years to lean on.

If you're not sure on the player better to keep him on an entry level deal as long as possible.

Bennett's lost season is likely going to save the Flames some big coin ... you could do the same with Tkachuk by letting him play 35 games, send him to the WJC then to London after.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly ... well said.

And I'd add to this that I think the NHL is changing a bit on the young player front.

If you think a player will be a core piece (top picks) you're better to get that entry level deal down to two years with a year that gets thrown away and get the player to that bridge deal without three years to lean on.

If you're not sure on the player better to keep him on an entry level deal as long as possible.

Bennett's lost season is likely going to save the Flames some big coin ... you could do the same with Tkachuk by letting him play 35 games, send him to the WJC then to London after.

As we're seeing with Gaudreau, not quite sure throwing away a year as a sign of good faith really does anything in the long run.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly ... well said.

And I'd add to this that I think the NHL is changing a bit on the young player front.

If you think a player will be a core piece (top picks) you're better to get that entry level deal down to two years with a year that gets thrown away and get the player to that bridge deal without three years to lean on.

If you're not sure on the player better to keep him on an entry level deal as long as possible.

Bennett's lost season is likely going to save the Flames some big coin ... you could do the same with Tkachuk by letting him play 35 games, send him to the WJC then to London after.

Came in to say pretty much this. We're all excited to see Tkachuk play for Calgary, but unless he absolutely blows the doors off in camp the most prudent thing to do is to send him down. Then next year we have a much more capable player by definition (because he's older), that only counts for 900k plus bonuses against the cap for the next three years. That's huge

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Regorium

As we're seeing with Gaudreau, not quite sure throwing away a year as a sign of good faith really does anything in the long run.

Gaudreau wasn't 18 when he signed with the Flames he was 20 which was 3 years after he was drafted. Bad example where the Bennett one is a great example. Even if Bennett breaks out for 60+ points this year that will likely not be enough to have him earn a 7-8 year deal at top $ more likely a 2-3 year bridge deal under $4M AAV

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Regorium

As we're seeing with Gaudreau, not quite sure throwing away a year as a sign of good faith really does anything in the long run.

Well it kept him from being offer sheet eligible or arbitration eligible, plus weighted his contract with 5 RFA years

It's not signed yet, but it's given the Flames the "stick"

[Bandwagon In Flames]

If Tkachuk does show he's good enough to be in the NHL, you better not be sending him back just to have his ELC slide.

That is the worst asset management possible.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

If Tkachuk does show he's good enough to be in the NHL, you better not be sending him back just to have his ELC slide.

That is the worst asset management possible.

Certainly not what I meant for sure.

However, different from say 5 years ago, I think a team can keep him past 9 games if you think he "might" be ready and then be wrong and send him back. More of an advantage then a loss for the team given the contracts being signed these days.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Certainly not what I meant for sure.

However, different from say 5 years ago, I think a team can keep him past 9 games if you think he "might" be ready and then be wrong and send him back. More of an advantage then a loss for the team given the contracts being signed these days.

Agreed, just need to make sure it's the right decision and take as long as possible to make it. Because once he goes down, he's there for the full junior season.

And if it doesn't look like Tkachuk is there offensively, maybe it is the better choice. I certainly don't want him staggering his offensive skills with limited minutes and turning into a 3rd line checker.

There's going to be plenty of prospects knocking at the door this camp and Tkachuk is going to have to get himself noticed for a lot of the good things while staying more disciplined.

[Bingo]

The really odd one was Draisaitl with the Oilers ... he was sputtering yet they didn't release him for the WJC and Germany, but then sent him back to the WHL when the rosters were frozen for the tournament.

Odd behaviour.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The really odd one was Draisaitl with the Oilers ... he was sputtering yet they didn't release him for the WJC and Germany, but then sent him back to the WHL when the rosters were frozen for the tournament.

Odd behaviour.

I read if they let him go to the World Juniors he would have technically been on the Oilers roster still and the 40th game would have "counted". By not allowing him to go they didn't burn a year of being an RFA.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I read if they let him go to the World Juniors he would have technically been on the Oilers roster still and the 40th game would have "counted". By not allowing him to go they didn't burn a year of being an RFA.

Why wouldn't they just send him to the WHL first then? And then allowed him to go?

[Weitz]

No idea.