Friedman: Gaudreau negotiations will be put on hold during World Cup

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

If they sign him for 7.5, so be it - but now it will be harder to keep Bennett and, eventually, Tkachuk's salaries correspondingly down. It snowballs. I like how Treliving is sticking to his numbers (whatever they may be) as Gaudreau is not going to bring a cup to Calgary single-handedly. Not only is every dollar you save on a contract a dollar you can put to use elsewhere in an upgrade, but it also (in theory) allows you to save an additional few dollars with other contracts as well down the road with other players.

I have never liked this philosophy. I don't think teams can or should worry too much down the line and need to live in the now when it comes to these things. It's impossible to know who will progress, or who won't. Or who might end up getting traded. I doubt even the best GMs in the leage can predict those things with much accuracy past 2 seasons.

Did Chicago ever worry about paying their best players what they are worth? Never, and they got a few Cups out of it because they adjusted as they went. Sure it meant having to trade good players for futures, but it worked for them (and is still working).

You identify your core, pay them what they are worth, then change the pieces around them as needed until one of them is good enough to replace a core player. Long gone are the days where a good team establishes a roster and holds more than a few of those players for several years straight.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I have never liked this philosophy. I don't think teams can or should worry too much down the line and need to live in the now when it comes to these things. It's impossible to know who will progress, or who won't. Or who might end up getting traded. I doubt even the best GMs in the leage can predict those things with much accuracy past 2 seasons.

Did Chicago ever worry about paying their best players what they are worth? Never, and they got a few Cups out of it because they adjusted as they went. Sure it meant having to trade good players for futures, but it worked for them (and is still working).

You identify your core, pay them what they are worth, then change the pieces around them as needed until one of them is good enough to replace a core player. Long gone are the days where a good team establishes a roster and holds more than a few of those players for several years straight.

Chicago is a world away from where we're at. They're able to overpay their stars because they can easily trade their role players for prospects (or dump their contracts) as other teams are interested in their "winning" players. Also, thanks to always being a contender, they're able to fill their roster with veteran free agents for $1M contracts. Until Calgary stats winning consistently, trying to copy Chicago won't work as no one will want our spare parts when we'll need to shed salary (ex: Bouma, Stajan, Raymond, Wideman)...

[GGG]

One reason Gaudreuas camp will be reluctant to go long for less is that he is older. If he signs an 8 year deal he's here throughout his prime until he's 31. Compare that with Monhan who is 28 when is 7 year deal is done.

If you want him for 6.74 then you are likely only buying 1 UFA year as he needs to be sub 30 to cash in on the next contract. Otherwise you need to add some 10 mil years in 7 and 8 which bumps up the contract.

There is an odd combination of 5 RFA years and an older player that make it different from other contracts. An 8 year deal buys his entire prime and that will cost a lot of money.

The more I think about it I think a 6 year deal under the gio cap is where this one falls out.

[Vinny01]

I am concerned the deal will be identical to Gio's or slightly less $6.5M which is a fail by the organization.

I really hope the Flames buy at the very least 2 UFA years but will be disappointed if the deal is under 7 years. As mentioned before I would rather they buy all 3 UFA years even if they have to pay $8M because I don't see Johnny signing another long term deal here and if he does it will cost north of $10M and really mess the cap up. I prefer we sign him for 8 and either trade him or let him walk after that deal than go 6 years at Gio money and then go 8 years at Kane money

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Stamkos 2nd contract - 7.5 per in 2011, 11.7% of Cap ceiling.

If Gaudreau signs 8 per it would be 10.95% of cap ceiling. So he's not asking more then other young stars have gotten in the past.

Arguing a percentage of the cap doesn't hold water across different periods.

When Stamkos signed that deal, the cap was rising by 5-6% per year. So each year, as the cap climbed, his salary became less significant.

Now however, we are looking at a flat cap for a while. So committing 11% of it to a single player - a winger - is suicide.

[Firebot]

Gaudreau is on the fringe of becoming a true superstar. He was top 6 in scoring in his 2nd NHL season on a bad team. He's tearing up the world cup. He's the first true elite forward that Calgary has had since Iginla in his prime. Yet at 23, Iginla was barely a 60 point player.

This is the first time that Calgary is about to sign a young star on a long term deal in the current era. Gaudreau is better than Mackinnon, Monahan and even Tarasenko. Do we want a Subban situation or a Stamkos one? It will take more than 7.5 million a years AAV to buy out 2 years of UFA from a guy who clearly knows he is a superstar in the making. I expect the deal to end up just shy of 8 million AAV.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

He better get used to it. The best players in the league all face the toughest opposition, shift after shift, game after game, year after year. As long as Gaudreau is the top forward on the team (and he's asking to be paid like it), the game plan of every team the Flames face is goint to be to shut him down.

For sure, with the difference in his case being that he did it as a rookie/sophomore. I'm confident that it won't be an issue as he gets more experience under his belt.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Gaudreau is on the fringe of becoming a true superstar. He was top 6 in scoring in his 2nd NHL season on a bad team. He's tearing up the world cup. He's the first true elite forward that Calgary has had since Iginla in his prime. Yet at 23, Iginla was barely a 60 point player.

This is the first time that Calgary is about to sign a young star on a long term deal in the current era. Gaudreau is better than Mackinnon, Monahan and even Tarasenko. Do we want a Subban situation or a Stamkos one? It will take more than 7.5 million a years AAV to buy out 2 years of UFA from a guy who clearly knows he is a superstar in the making. I expect the deal to end up just shy of 8 million AAV.

Why do you think Gaudreau is better than all of those players? Because points? Let's not start sounding like Oilers fans here...

[polak]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Why do you think Gaudreau is better than all of those players? Because points? Let's not start sounding like Oilers fans here...

As long as his production doesn't drop off, he is better.

It's not like those other guys are some two way dynamo's to make up for Gaudreau's offense driving ability.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Are people willing to believe that there is a strong possibility that the Gio cap is an actual thing? Or is even bringing up that idea still worth of ridicule?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Gaudreau is on the fringe of becoming a true superstar. He was top 6 in scoring in his 2nd NHL season on a bad team. He's tearing up the world cup. He's the first true elite forward that Calgary has had since Iginla in his prime. Yet at 23, Iginla was barely a 60 point player.

This is the first time that Calgary is about to sign a young star on a long term deal in the current era. Gaudreau is better than Mackinnon, Monahan and even Tarasenko. Do we want a Subban situation or a Stamkos one? It will take more than 7.5 million a years AAV to buy out 2 years of UFA from a guy who clearly knows he is a superstar in the making. I expect the deal to end up just shy of 8 million AAV.

How do you get there in terms of value. His RFA years are worth 6 million per or so. Then add 10mil per for UFA years and you get 7.14 for 7 years and 7.5 for 8 years. How do people get above 7.5 million for the contract.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Are people willing to believe that there is a strong possibility that the Gio cap is an actual thing? Or is even bringing up that idea still worth of ridicule?

I don't think there is a real cap. Its a negotiating ploy so the flames don't have to break 7 million before Gaudreaus camp drops to the 7.5 range. Essentailly BT wants to make the final offer by saying for you we'll create the Gaudreau cap at 7.2 but that's the most we can do without insulting Gio or Monahan at which point it looks like Gaudreau's camp has won the negotiation but really everybody wins when he signs 8 years @ 7.2

So no there is no "real" gio cap, it is merely a negotiating tactic until Johnny's camp becomes more reasonable.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Really? Yeah, news flash, players are getting bigger contracts than they did eleven years ago...

If only I'd started the post with some sort of qualifier. Like 'just for curiosity'.

Oh well. Next time.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Are people willing to believe that there is a strong possibility that the Gio cap is an actual thing? Or is even bringing up that idea still worth of ridicule?

Worthy of ridicule in my view. Johnny might get more, might get less depending on term. No reason to create arbitrary issues.

[puckedoff]

Worst part about the delay for the World Cup is not an increased risk that JG does not sign, but rather the postponing of contracts for depth blue liners IMO.

[CroFlames]

How many elite players do you guys think there are in the NHL? If you truly think Johnny is elite, but then you argue he's worth about $7.5MM, you contradicting yourself.

Elite guys make $9MM or more a season.

I would argue Johnny can/will be a star in this league. Is he going to put up 100 points? I have my doubts. Over the next 7 years, will Monahan or Johnny be more valuable to the club? I would have to say Monahan and therefore I think Johnny should sign a deal practically identical to Monahan's. Johnny's extra 14 points are offset by the fact that Monahan plays the harder position and wears an A.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

How many elite players do you guys think there are in the NHL? If you truly think Johnny is elite, but then you argue he's worth about $7.5MM, you contradicting yourself.

Elite guys make $9MM or more a season.

I would argue Johnny can/will be a star in this league. Is he going to put up 100 points? I have my doubts. Over the next 7 years, will Monahan or Johnny be more valuable to the club? I would have to say Monahan and therefore I think Johnny should sign a deal practically identical to Monahan's. Johnny's extra 14 points are offset by the fact that Monahan plays the harder position and wears an A.

There is no contradiction when you consider contract status. Him being an RFA for 5 years makes a difference. Elite UFA's make $9MM or more a season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Are people willing to believe that there is a strong possibility that the Gio cap is an actual thing? Or is even bringing up that idea still worth of ridicule?

I don't think it's a real thing no.

I think that would be a foolish way to do business. I think the math lands in that spot because of 5 years of RFA in Gaudreau's structure and media added the Giordano wrinkle on their own.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

How many elite players do you guys think there are in the NHL? If you truly think Johnny is elite, but then you argue he's worth about $7.5MM, you contradicting yourself.

Elite guys make $9MM or more a season.

I would argue Johnny can/will be a star in this league. Is he going to put up 100 points? I have my doubts. Over the next 7 years, will Monahan or Johnny be more valuable to the club? I would have to say Monahan and therefore I think Johnny should sign a deal practically identical to Monahan's. Johnny's extra 14 points are offset by the fact that Monahan plays the harder position and wears an A.

what guys have made 9M after playing 2 seasons plus one game?

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think it's a real thing no.

I think that would be a foolish way to do business. I think the math lands in that spot because of 5 years of RFA in Gaudreau's structure and media added the Giordano wrinkle on their own.

I hope you're right. Just makes me nervous that now 3 different people in the media have alluded to the fact that they don't want to pay higher than Gio. Like you said, I hope it's just a coincidence.