[GDT] Young Stars Classic: Flames vs Jets

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Huge difference between productive play-drivers bringing grit (Benn, Iginla, Marchand, Forsberg, Perry, Pronger, Chara, Weber, Doughty, Stevens etc) and unproducive role players bringing little else but grit.

Tkachuk earned the right to muck around because he was a scoring chance machine. The best player on the ice was a bully. No problem. Caroll and Lomberg were at least at this level also able to generate chances/goals. The better team was being bullies, NBD. It's unneccesssary but fun to watch in the entertainment industry. I bet you the Jets don't give a damn about Logan Stanley's "grit" after their team got destroyed though.. winning is the funnest thing to watch

No one inherently dislikes grit. But there are aesthetic elements and functional elements that need to be identified / separated and players at any given level need to bring more to the table than just grit. You need some functional grit but you don't need an aesthetic of grit. And even teams with an aesthetic of grit are often good in spite of not because of their rah rah ######yness.

The 04 Flames may have been sore losers but they backed it up by being a damn effective team the next game, even Chris Simon was more of a key goal scorer for them but people just remember a goon. They also played in an era where everyone had inefficiencies at the bottom of their roster - it was an even playing field to bring the drama. You don't have that luxury anymore, even a former 7 goal scorer like Bollig is hanging on by a thread as a 14th forward. He might have been a legit 3rd liner back then.

The Flames #7-11 forwards in the 04 playoff run were Donovan, Simon, Clark, Lombardi and Saprykin (Lowry and Kobasew and Oliwa filled in the 4th line) Bollig would be likely not have hung around as the 14th forward as he was not tough enough.

The Red Wing team that the Flames beat in that run had a HOF lineup... Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hull, Yezerman, Shanahan, Holstrom, Robert Lang, and Ray Whitney. Their checkers were Maltby and Draper in their prime. Defense Lidstrom, Chelios, Hatcher, Schnieder and Fischer... Cujo in goal

The Wings won 80-20 on the talent scale There were only 3-4 players on the Flames that would have had the talent to play a regular shift on the wings.

The Flames won 80-20 on the Grit scale... The Flames won


Oh the Jets are likely wondering about Logan Stanley's (and Lemieux's) grit. They did not stand up to the Flames physical onslaught. Continued play like that will make it harder for Lemieux to take away ice ice from Thorburn.

[sun]

Not a fan of the dirty play by Tkachuk at all. Flying elbow to the head of a player without the puck and then crosschecking him in the head while he's down (in an exhibition game) has people singing his praises? Popped Lemieux pretty good with a cheapshot hiding behind the linesman in the scrum at the end too.

He wanted to make a statement? The statement he made to me was that he is easily rattled and will retaliate idiotically when chirped, to the detriment of his team. Is he saying "say my name" repeatedly to Lemieux in the box in the 3rd? First time watching him play - bad first impression, in my books.

[Racki]

There's no chance Tkachuk will play like that every game. It'd be a detriment to his team a lot of nights but he absolutely set the tone for that game last night. The Flames bullied the Jets and the Jets played scared. There's no question about that. I'm so happy he was there for us at #6

[Robbob]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Bennett played on the edge last year as well, more so then any nhl game he has played. Players will also go out of their way to make a statement against highly drafted players. I like the analogy of the first day in prison.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The only cautionary point was that Tkachuk looked relatively small.

No, he didn't.

He's 6'2, 205lbs.

In what world is that small?

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by sun

Not a fan of the dirty play by Tkachuk at all. Flying elbow to the head of a player without the puck and then crosschecking him in the head while he's down (in an exhibition game) has people singing his praises? Popped Lemieux pretty good with a cheapshot hiding behind the linesman in the scrum at the end too.

He wanted to make a statement? The statement he made to me was that he is easily rattled and will retaliate idiotically when chirped, to the detriment of his team. Is he saying "say my name" repeatedly to Lemieux in the box in the 3rd? First time watching him play - bad first impression, in my books.

Easilly rattled? What a load of crap

He was obviously revved up playing his first game in a Flames uniform.

The amount of comments worrying or suggesting that he's going to play with that kind of reckless abandon constantly are baffling.

[Pizza]

Originally Posted by sun

Not a fan of the dirty play by Tkachuk at all. Flying elbow to the head of a player without the puck and then crosschecking him in the head while he's down (in an exhibition game) has people singing his praises? Popped Lemieux pretty good with a cheapshot hiding behind the linesman in the scrum at the end too.

He wanted to make a statement? The statement he made to me was that he is easily rattled and will retaliate idiotically when chirped, to the detriment of his team. Is he saying "say my name" repeatedly to Lemieux in the box in the 3rd? First time watching him play - bad first impression, in my books.

catching only the highlights last night, I thought it was awesome
but watching the full game this morning, i agree, it was a cheap shot

if there was a history between these guys,
Thachuk should've threw down the gloves and challenged him to a fight or make a harder hockey hit when Lemeuix had the puck.

but an elbow to the face to the guy when he didnt have the puck?
multiple crosschecks to a guy when he's already face down on the ice?

put down the homer glasses everyone, we'd be screaming for suspensions if it happened to Tkachuk

[FBI]

If I recall, We won that Detroit series because of kiprusoff

[Radio]

Wasn't a big fan of it, but going by what Steinberg said, they have history from junior. So maybe it was payback in a more or less nothing game where there's little to no chance of supplementary discipline. If that's the case then it's a perfect opportunity to exact your pound of flesh.

[blankall]

Still cannot believe Vancouver passed on Tkachuk. Is he not exactly what they've been looking for since 2010?

[robaur]

Originally Posted by Pizza

catching only the highlights last night, I thought it was awesome
but watching the full game this morning, i agree, it was a cheap shot

if there was a history between these guys,
Thachuk should've threw down the gloves and challenged him to a fight or make a harder hockey hit when Lemeuix had the puck.

but an elbow to the face to the guy when he didnt have the puck?
multiple crosschecks to a guy when he's already face down on the ice?

put down the homer glasses everyone, we'd be screaming for suspensions if it happened to Tkachuk

But it wouldn't...thats exactly the point. I'm glad to see that Tkachuk is capable of play like this. It makes him a bully. Thats a huge positive in his game.

If he puts up major points and has shades of playing dirty...keeping the other team off-balance....I'm all for it. The Flames needed a dirtbag in the baddest way....and to get that in a guy who can rack up the points...I'm all for it.

I don't understand people who say dirty hockey is wrong.....it ain't wrong at the professional level if it helps you win games.

[zyzz]

This forum would be screaming like pigs getting slaughtered if the shoe was on the other foot

[GoJetsGo]

He's 18 and went after a guy he has a history with.

The amount of people who seem to equate that to him being a potential dirt bag is laughable.

Just as is the suggestion he's going to play with that level of balls-to-the-wall at all times moving forward.

Why is context so difficult for some people? Yes, that particular play was a dirty one. But he's a kid playing in his first game with the Flames, hyped up and full of adrenaline. Some of you need to dial it down a bit.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by zyzz

This forum would be screaming like pigs getting slaughtered if the shoe was on the other foot

Just like every other forum.
Fans tend to favor their team.
Stunning.

[zyzz]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Just like every other forum.
Fans tend to favor their team.
Stunning.

Homers actually. I loved the way he played last night. It's part of the game always will be. I can already see it now when a player who plays with the same edge does something of the nature to a Flame, it'll be the end of the world.

[Racki]

Originally Posted by Pizza

we'd be screaming for suspensions if it happened to Tkachuk

Originally Posted by zyzz

This forum would be screaming like pigs getting slaughtered if the shoe was on the other foot

But it didn't....

And it wasn't...

Because Tkachuk is the one that knocks...and I love it.

[zyzz]

Originally Posted by Racki

But it didn't....

And it wasn't...

Because Tkachuk is the one that knocks...and I love it.

But it will.

Because there's always someone else's that'll knock.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by zyzz

But it will.

Because there's always someone else's that'll knock.

Do you have something resembling a point here? This is a message board. People don't need an incident of that nature to over-react. It happens daily on a multitude of topics.

The hyperbole is deafening.

Someone might take a cheap shot at a Flames player again some day and people will be upset. Got it. I think your multiple posts suggesting this have come through loud and clear.

[sun]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Easilly rattled? What a load of crap

He was obviously revved up playing his first game in a Flames uniform.

The amount of comments worrying or suggesting that he's going to play with that kind of reckless abandon constantly are baffling.

Load of crap, clever point lol. An emoji too! What an intelligent contribution, cheers.

He's either a) easily rattled by something Lemieux did/said or b) "revved up" and decides the best expenditure of that energy is leaping at someone's head (elbow extended) crosschecking someone in the back of the head (repeatedly) while they were defenceless on the ice, and throwing cheapshot punches behind the ref to an opponent with his hands tied up.

Take your pick.

No one said he will play with this "reckless abandon" "constantly". The fact that he played like a cheapshot artist in one meaningless game is bad enough.

[zyzz]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Do you have something resembling a point here? This is a message board. People don't need an incident of that nature to over-react. It happens daily on a multitude of topics.

The hyperbole is deafening.

Someone might take a cheap shot at a Flames player again some day and people will be upset. Got it. I think your multiple posts suggesting this have come through loud and clear.

Thanks for reiterating what I was trying to say. I think everyone gets it now.