Teachers work "really hard'.

[Sliver]

Haha, that was truly some strange advice.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

It is with some reluctance that I am wading back into this thread.

To be explicitly clear, this post is about my personal experience as the spouse of a school teacher, and the perspective I have gained through years of watching my spouse’s successes and struggles. It is not a short post.

{snip}

However, I vehemently disagree with the majority of the posters in this thread who make sweeping generalizations about teachers. Including (and most insulting to me) their work ethic. I challenge many of you to overcome your own biases. It does nothing to further the discussion and only promotes further antagonism.

When people generalize in these threads, I believe they're talking about the average teachers and the below average teachers. Your post offered great insight and an important reminder that the above average teachers - a group to which your wife clearly belongs - should be acknowledged. Thanks for sharing. The effort your wife is putting into her career sounds much harder than my typical day.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Sliver

When people generalize in these threads, I believe they're talking about the average teachers and the below average teachers. Your post offered great insight and an important reminder that the above average teachers - a group to which your wife clearly belongs - should be acknowledged. Thanks for sharing. The effort your wife is putting into her career sounds much harder than my typical day.

Part of the reason I ultimately decided that I couldn't be a teacher is that I couldn't work in a non-merit based profession. Watching people eff the dog all day, making more than me because they happen to have more experience would be infuriating and ultimately demoralizing. That's gotta be the hardest part of being a good teacher. Watching idiots get "promoted".

[V]

Yeah, I worked with a couple guys at Enmax that pulled out their money, lost a whole mess of it, and now probably have to work for the rest of their life. I don't see how I could take that gamble in good conscience. That's massive, just based on an idea that you might be able to do better. No thanks.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Your post offered great insight and an important reminder that the above average teachers - a group to which your wife clearly belongs - should be acknowledged. Thanks for sharing. The effort your wife is putting into her career sounds much harder than my typical day.

I think Sliver's account has been hacked!

[V]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Part of the reason I ultimately decided that I couldn't be a teacher is that I couldn't work in a non-merit based profession. Watching people eff the dog all day, making more than me because they happen to have more experience would be infuriating and ultimately demoralizing. That's gotta be the hardest part of being a good teacher. Watching idiots get "promoted".

I've only worked in the private sector, but I've never worked at a place where this wasn't the case to some degree.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by V

I've only worked in the private sector, but I've never worked at a place where this wasn't the case to some degree.

I think you mean Public Sector.

[V]

I've never worked in the public sector.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by V

I've never worked in the public sector.

Well:

Private Sector: The part of the National Economy that is not under direct Government Control.

Public Sector: The part of the National Economy that is controlled by the Government.

But then again I have no idea what you do.

[V]

Yeah, it's private sector. If you would define what I do as public sector you would be wrong. Do you consider ATB public sector?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by V

Yeah, it's private sector. If you would define what I do as public sector you would be wrong. Do you consider ATB public sector?

On the advice of my attorney I decline the option of answering that on the grounds that the answer may incriminate me.

But ATB is a Public company.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Part of the reason I ultimately decided that I couldn't be a teacher is that I couldn't work in a non-merit based profession. Watching people eff the dog all day, making more than me because they happen to have more experience would be infuriating and ultimately demoralizing. That's gotta be the hardest part of being a good teacher. Watching idiots get "promoted".

Bad teachers get shuffled around. Eventually they end up at schools in communities with low-income demographics. Terrible yes.

But if you're good you'll be surrounded by other good teachers, rich parents and smart kids! Just don't look in Queensland.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Part of the reason I ultimately decided that I couldn't be a teacher is that I couldn't work in a non-merit based profession. Watching people eff the dog all day, making more than me because they happen to have more experience would be infuriating and ultimately demoralizing. That's gotta be the hardest part of being a good teacher. Watching idiots get "promoted".

I can't imagine the ridiculousness of an entire workplace where you literally cannot be fired or even disciplined unless you actually have proven sexual relations with one of the students. Having direct experiences in the CBE, knowing that people with dozens of sexual harassment complaints still there because literally nothing can be done, it's pretty sad.

Hell, even seeing a 55 year old guy in the janitorial department getting the new manager opening for the computer database software department because he's got seniority on everybody else applying regardless of qualification or knowledge.

It's a pretty phat gig.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well one of the major issues with just "pulling the money out and doing it yourself" is the tax issue, but not just because its registered money. So you can move a chunk from a pension plan to a LIRA (locked in retirement account), but not all. So essentially what happens with large pensions is that move s chunk, but a significant amount is going to come to the person as cash, which is fully taxable all in one year.

Another factor and not insignificant consideration is that DB plans in general have benefits plans attached to them. So the costs of health, dental and of course medications remains in place as these people age and generally require them more and more.

Those are two quick examples where you really want to think these things through before you base this entirely on how much you put in and what you get out. Can it work to your advantage to take the commuted value and do it on your own? Absolutely, and I have many clients where we have done this from their pensions for various reasons. All my point is, is to be careful and weight the pros and cons. There are reasons that employees everywhere want these plans though, and why financial institutions have tried so hard to equivocate them for retail investors.

I agree that you take some risk however, the teachers gave up their benefits that were tied to the plan years ago. They are on their own when they retire. A teacher that retired this year pulled 950,000 out invested it through her adviser in a LIRA and is making more per month than she ever would if she collected her pension and she has the capital. It is riskier but in my opinion the better option. The pension is not inheritable to your family there is a pay out to your spouse. The pension has taken some big hits, the largest being the loss of all benefits.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

I agree that you take some risk however, the teachers gave up their benefits that were tied to the plan years ago. They are on their own when they retire. A teacher that retired this year pulled 950,000 out invested it through her adviser in a LIRA and is making more per month than she ever would if she collected her pension and she has the capital. It is riskier but in my opinion the better option. The pension is not inheritable to your family there is a pay out to your spouse. The pension has taken some big hits, the largest being the loss of all benefits.

Yeah there are scenarios where it will work out, but there is longevity risk there. I have no doubt that for some people it can work out, but a blanket recommendation to just invest it on your own and maybe do better isn't responsible either. I would also say that it depends on what the people need to live on and what kind of lifestyle they want to live.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Bad teachers get shuffled around. Eventually they end up at schools in communities with low-income demographics. Terrible yes.

Sad because those kids are often the ones who need the best teachers.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah there are scenarios where it will work out, but there is longevity risk there. I have no doubt that for some people it can work out, but a blanket recommendation to just invest it on your own and maybe do better isn't responsible either. I would also say that it depends on what the people need to live on and what kind of lifestyle they want to live.

You are right it isn't for everyone. It is an option most teachers don't know they have. I suppose a better way of putting it is I often offer it as an option. The union keeps it as much of a secret as possible. As soon as a teacher turns 55 they are no longer able to pull their pension.

You are absolutely correct when you mention that it depends on so many variables for each individual and a blanket recommendation is irresponsible.

[V]

I don't know a single person in my pension that doesn't realize they can pull the money. No one does it because it's a crazy risk for not enough gain. And people that lose out are excellent examples of what not to do for the rest of us.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by V

I don't know a single person in my pension that doesn't realize they can pull the money. No one does it because it's a crazy risk for not enough gain. And people that lose out are excellent examples of what not to do for the rest of us.

Are you a teacher? I know it was news to almost all the teachers I have told. The risk isn't as crazy as you think but for many it is safer to leave it.

[V]

No, different pension. But people in a pension typically find some time in their 30 year careers to figure out how it works.

The amount of risk is probably better suited for Slava's forum, though.