The New American Politics thread

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Buster

The content of the video doesn't really matter. All that matter is how it impacts voters. And it looks bad.

Content doesn't matter? Isn't that the whole idea of watching and listening, to review the content and gather information?

And it looks bad? Looks bad on who? A company protecting their assets or the clown running this gong show of a hearing? The whole email thing is not gaining any traction. It is a lost cause. The only one this is going to hurt is Chaffetz as he is beating a dead horse. The FBI has come out and said there is nothing there that can stick to Clinton. Now this hearing looks like they are looking for someone, anyone, to hang a charge on. Cummings says as much. That is what the actual content says, and those who watch this and understand the proceedings will come to that conclusion.

Words matter? Indeed. I'm awaiting your PhD thesis on the subject.

Thanks troll. Not even a good attempt at deflection. That means you can't defend your position. Another instance where Buster gets beat down. Can't wait to see you come back in a few pages claiming victory!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

DNC leaks revealing a huge amount of new information. People have started combing through the leaked documents are starting to find very interesting things.

Basically ambassadorships are awarded based almost entirely on dollars you can bring into the DNC either through personal donation or fundraising. The spreadsheet of the amount of money brought in to the position is very telling. Cost to become ambassador of Canada: $700k


DNC also apparently has a large stock portfolio. Doesn't this create a conflict of interest situation?

http://pastebin.com/9nig3CsV

There are also cases where the DNC received earnings report information prior to the that information being publicly available and also awarding contracts. One of the most notable examples is Pike Electric under the Clinton chaired MCC. Insider trade much?
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/775812373269454848
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co...er_20_data_on/

Pay for Play is not new or uncommon, I'm surprised it's being highlighted as a 'leak'.

Here's an example:

Bush Pioneers are people who gathered $100,000 for George W. Bush's 2000 or 2004 presidential campaign. Two new levels, Bush Rangers and Super Rangers, were bestowed upon supporters who gathered $200,000+ or $300,000+, respectively, for the 2004 campaign, after the 2002 McCain–Feingold campaign finance law raised hard money contribution limits. This was done through the practice of "bundling" contributions. [1] There were 221 Rangers and 327 Pioneers in the 2004 campaign and 241 Pioneers in the 2000 campaign (550 pledged to try).[1] A fourth level, Bush Mavericks, was used to identify fundraisers under 40 years of age who bundled more than $50,000. [2]

The Pioneer system was devised by Karl Rove. The network has roots in Texan GOP donor lists compiled by Rove, whose political roots are in direct-mail solicitation in the 1980s.[3]

Nineteen of the original Pioneers became ambassadors in 2001. Six Pioneers have been convicted of politics-related crimes.

It's probably one of the most transparent parts of government corruption.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Buster

It's unfortunate that people mistake my cynicism for misogyny. People have to be careful to not trivialize these words - a real problem with the Trump-ophobes in general, actually.

I'm picturing all of the sensitive souls in this thread, flushed in the face, fainting behind their keyboards for having been forced to read my comment. "Dear, fix me some tea...I've just been offended on the internet."

You made a misogynist comment. Own it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

@Flame On

The disclosure that the DNC awards ambassadorships based on fiscal giving and support is nothing new. It's been that way since the country was founded. Political appointments have always been based on quid pro quo rather than being qualified to do the job. Both parties have done this and will continue to do this. It is part of the mechanism.

Also, the DNC investing in the market is also nothing new. All big slush funds like this are used for investing. That is how these interests keep fluid. The RNC does the same thing. Again, it's part of the American system and nothing earth shattering.

[Buster]

Content only matters if the voters care about it. They don't.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by New Era

@Flame On

The disclosure that the DNC awards ambassadorships based on fiscal giving and support is nothing new. It's been that way since the country was founded. Political appointments have always been based on quid pro quo rather than being qualified to do the job. Both parties have done this and will continue to do this. It is part of the mechanism.

Also, the DNC investing in the market is also nothing new. All big slush funds like this are used for investing. That is how these interests keep fluid. The RNC does the same thing. Again, it's part of the American system and nothing earth shattering.

It's ok America, the government has been a sytem of bribery and cronyism so long that there is nothing to complain about. #DNC #RNC

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Buster

Content only matters if the voters care about it. They don't.

Exactly. The public has lost interest in the whole email scandal. They did when the FBI called no foul. The voters don't care about this. They've moved on. Maybe you should as well.

[peter12]

New Era has actually become an apologist for corruption and scandal haha. Hey I know it happens on both sides.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by New Era

Exactly. The public has lost interest in the whole email scandal. They did when the FBI called no foul. The voters don't care about this. They've moved on. Maybe you should as well.

I have no idea if the public will be interested in the IT contractor who deleted her emails refusing to incriminate himself.

That's up to the voters.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

It's ok America the government has been a sytem of bribery and cronyism for a long time so there is nothing to complain about. #DNC #RNC

Well, this information is not presenting anything earth shattering or anything new. It's not scandalous in nature. It would be like posting that the internal combustion engine creates polutants. We all know that. Yeah, that's a bad thing, but it's part of the process and almost impossible to change. It's not like you can point at Ford and say what a bad polluter they and not recognize GM and Chrysler are doing the same thing.

[troutman]

Cultural racism is a specific type of racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_racism

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

New Era has actually become an apologist for corruption and scandal haha. Hey I know it happens on both sides.

Hardly. Just pointing out that none of this is news. It is a well known problem in the system and it is very hard to eliminate from the system when those it benefits are the ones who are charged with changing it.

Say, you're the political scientist, retired and all, so how about you share your incredible insights on how to fix the problem? How exactly do you change law when the law makers are benefited most from the existence of the current law? Seriously, this is a catch-22 that is hard to change.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, this information is not presenting anything earth shattering or anything new. It's not scandalous in nature. It would be like posting that the internal combustion engine creates polutants. We all know that. Yeah, that's a bad thing, but it's part of the process and almost impossible to change. It's not like you can point at Ford and say what a bad polluter they and not recognize GM and Chrysler are doing the same thing.

I am not pointing at one party or another as being the only one corrupt. I was only posting about the current leak. If the RNC gets hacked in the future I will gladly be posting that as well.

Bad press and getting people to care are what drives change. To a Canadian some of these practiices are news. Is there no benefit to shining lights on inherently corrupt practices, especially ones that are hell of illegal in almost every other modernized country? Or has the American public become so polarized and apathetic that this will no longer be an issue? Has it really become an Idiocracy?

#Electrolytes

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

It's ok America, the government has been a sytem of bribery and cronyism so long that there is nothing to complain about. #DNC #RNC

The current nominees for the given parties should tell you how little Americans really care about this. You may want them to care more about it, but they consistently show you they don't. Just part of the game now.

[Flash Walken]

The goddamned citizens don't actually vote for their presidential candidates and some posters are choosing to get upset that political appointees get political appointments? As if THAT is the major issue with american politics?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

I am not pointing at one party or another as being the only one corrupt. I was only posting about the current leak. If the RNC gets hacked in the future I will gladly be posting that as well.

Bad press and getting people to care are what drives change. To a Canadian some of these practiices are news. Is there no benefit to shining lights on inherently corrupt practices, especially ones that are hell of illegal in almost every other modernized country? Or has the American public become so polarized and apathetic that this will no longer be an issue? Has it really become an Idiocracy?

#Electrolytes

Yes it has become this bad. I feel your pain, and I appreciate that you feel our pain. I don't know what the solution looks like based on how the system is stacked and the level of low information voters there are out there.

Vote Camacho?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The goddamned citizens don't actually vote for their presidential candidates and some posters are choosing to get upset that political appointees get political appointments? As if THAT is the major issue with american politics?

Good earners get better positions. Oh my stars and garters, someone fetch me my fainting couch.

Next you'll tell me politicians meet with donors. Insanity.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I mean here is perhaps the ultimate proof of how the American electoral system is the ultimate trainwreck. It is after all why we all like following it so much right? People don't care if someone is even alive, they don't care if they even choose the candidate, so naturally nobody cares about corruption.

Days after killing himself, a vocal advocate for gun rights and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has won a New York primary election.

Assemblyman Bill Nojay was facing a fraud trial in Cambodia and reportedly under FBI scrutiny when he went to his family's cemetery plot in Rochester and shot himself in front of an arriving police officer on Friday.

Now the defeat Tuesday of challenger Richard Milne coupled with a quirk in state election law means that local GOP leaders, who encouraged voters to choose Nojay despite his death, get to pick someone to take on Democrat Barbara Baer in November. Nojay's Republican-leaning district in the Legislature's lower chamber covers parts of suburban Rochester and the Finger Lakes region.

"I really don't know what to say. It's such an unusual situation," Milne told The Associated Press as unofficial results showed him trailing by nearly 1,000 of the 4,500 votes cast.

Though he hopes the three county leaders put him on the ballot, Milne was critical of "robocalls" and other efforts by the "powers that be" to boost Nojay after his death.

"They really did some things in the past few days that were in poor taste in my opinion to sway the vote," he said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ny-gop-la...-politics.html

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

Hardly. Just pointing out that none of this is news. It is a well known problem in the system and it is very hard to eliminate from the system when those it benefits are the ones who are charged with changing it.

Say, you're the political scientist, retired and all, so how about you share your incredible insights on how to fix the problem? How exactly do you change law when the law makers are benefited most from the existence of the current law? Seriously, this is a catch-22 that is hard to change.

Move to Mexico? Profit?

I think that a party platform that successfully demonstrates how power can effectively be moved to the local level in a sustainable and equitable manner would be very successful.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

It's ok America, the government has been a sytem of bribery and cronyism so long that there is nothing to complain about. #DNC #RNC

It's not that there's nothing to complain about--it's that both sides are equally guilty. We just aren't getting leaked emails from the RNC, which I'd imagine contain just as much damning information (and potentially more, given the documents found while investigating NC's attempt to suppress voting). It's a corrupt, ugly system and no one is denying that, but it's the system we're stuck functioning within, so why blame one party when the other does the same?

Originally Posted by peter12

Move to Mexico? Profit?

I think that a party platform that successfully demonstrates how power can effectively be moved to the local level in a sustainable and equitable manner would be very successful.

Until we can get money out of politics, this is never going to happen. A candidate like that wouldn't have the money to go head-to-head with the GOP/DNC and would stand no chance in a federal election.

1) Third party candidates need to rally votes in local elections first--at county and state levels. If independent politicians could get a foothold at the level of state legislatures and then in Congress/House, they would stand a better chance of changing politics in America. They can't keep waiting until Presidential election years to push someone forward, they need to work on lower levels for a long time before they can start any real attempt at gaining the White House.

2) The GOP wants to further hamstring campaign finance laws, which would take this problem and dig it deeper into the workings of American politics. At least Democrats pay lip service to wanting to limit the effects of Citizens United, etc. Whether they'll actually make changes is yet to be seen, but the GOP platform explicitly states that it wants to allow for more private, secret funding of campaigns, not less, which puts more power in the hands of lobbyists, corporations, and the ultra-wealthy, who don't need more of a voice in Washington.