View Poll Results: Assuming a term of 7 years what will Gaudreau's AAV end up being?
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6.500 - 6.625
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9 |
1.28% |
6.625 - 6.750
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5 |
0.71% |
6.750 - 6.875
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21 |
2.99% |
6.875 - 7.000
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59 |
8.40% |
7.000 - 7.125
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89 |
12.68% |
7.125 - 7.250
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85 |
12.11% |
7.250 - 7.375
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112 |
15.95% |
7.375 - 7.500
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102 |
14.53% |
7.500 - 7.625
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71 |
10.11% |
7.625 - 7.750
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38 |
5.41% |
7.750 - 7.875
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39 |
5.56% |
7.875 - 8.000
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33 |
4.70% |
8.000 - 8.125
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21 |
2.99% |
8.125 - 8.250
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6 |
0.85% |
8.250 - 8.375
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1 |
0.14% |
8.375 - 8.500
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11 |
1.57% |
09-13-2016, 09:05 PM
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#1401
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Seriously. This.
Dion Phaneuf finished third in Calder voting that year, to Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin. Scored 20 goals as a rookie blueliner, becoming only the third player in NHL history to do that. He had NHL star written all over him, he was much more a franchise generational player than Gaudreau is.
Then, it fell apart.
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Phaneuf was at one point my favorite hockey player of all time (other than Iggy). In his prime, he was so much fun to watch. How quickly that imploded. Sigh.
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09-13-2016, 09:20 PM
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#1402
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
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This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
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09-13-2016, 09:24 PM
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#1403
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I believe in the Pony Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
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How so? We aren't saying it will happen but rather an example of how promising players don't always live up to that promise.
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09-13-2016, 09:27 PM
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#1404
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
No, he's johnnys agent Gross testing the waters on some of the arguments to try in negotiations with Brad.
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At first I thought gaudreauvertime was from a professional PR/social media company hired by the agent, but based on how poorly he represents Johnny and the agents positions, I realize they aren't professional.
At this point I would guess a friend or family member of someone. Possibly of Johnny, but doubtful. More likely someone from around the agents circle, or a family member of someone who works there. Maybe gaudreauvertime will tell us, but it's the internet so they could say anything.
I wonder what Johnny would think of this 'strategy'.
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09-13-2016, 09:32 PM
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#1405
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
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It's an excellent example of the fact that nothing is certain - even for certain stars.
It's a cautionary tale that illustrates why a team needs to remain responsible and sensible.
You can't pay a player the moon just because everyone thinks they're going to be great.
It's a guaranteed contract - the player will receive it, regardless of whether or not they live up to it. That's why there needs to be a bit of a sober element to it - the team is at risk for the whole thing, regardless.
The flip side is that the player has to take some risk too. Could he become a bigger star and be worth even more money? Of course. But the contract is guaranteed.
If you want a big fat guaranteed contract, you have to leave a little bit on the table to balance the risk.
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09-13-2016, 09:36 PM
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#1406
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
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I agree in the sense that Dion's production was inflated by all the power play time and sheltering he got early on.
But that doesn't change the fact that 22 year old Dion Phaneuf, final year of his entry level contract, was 2nd in Norris voting.
Just Behind Nik Lidstrom.
Ahead of Zdeno Chara.
Excuse me as I go purchase an AspireAssist.
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09-13-2016, 09:44 PM
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#1407
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I believe in the Pony Power
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I think Dion's career got de-railed by some things out of his control and some things within his control
I don't think he was particularly coachable or open to hearing how he could improve. Some of Rhett's comments on 960 reinforce this.
But I think his hip issues had a dramatic impact on his overall mobility and once fast, skilled forwards realized he had challenges pivoting one direction, they started taking advantage of it.
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09-13-2016, 09:45 PM
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#1408
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Franchise Player
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damn you all for reminding me of Icarus Phaneuf.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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09-13-2016, 09:45 PM
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#1409
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
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I think it's a risk you run with any player really. Gaudreau could become not worth his deal after 3 years, 6 years, not at all... or maybe he puts up 1000 points over the duration. Every player contract has risk outside of the top tier guys. And even then, look at what's happened to Stamkos for instance.
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09-13-2016, 09:46 PM
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#1410
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
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The flip side is the club has to take some educated risk. Johnny is closest things to a generational talent the Flames have ever had. It's obvious. Not paying now will make it very difficult to sign and build a winner later.
He looks like a character from the Matrix on the ice. Do you really want to wait till his value is 12 mill a season to sign?
This is a franchise changing decision coming up IMO...
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09-13-2016, 09:47 PM
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#1411
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I believe in the Pony Power
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^Again years ago the same thing would have been said about Dion and generational talent.
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09-13-2016, 09:48 PM
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#1412
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriHrdina
^Again years ago the same thing would have been said about Dion and generational talent.
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Fortune favours the bold.
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09-13-2016, 09:50 PM
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#1413
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Franchise Player
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Can Gaudreau still turn left?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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09-13-2016, 09:51 PM
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#1414
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Participant 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
Fortune favours the bold.
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We should trade Gaudreau too?
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09-13-2016, 09:52 PM
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#1415
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriHrdina
^Again years ago the same thing would have been said about Dion and generational talent.
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Yup. I remember predicting multiple Norris trophies for him.
And in many other seasons, he probably would have won the Calder. But he happened to be a rookie in the same year as Crosby and Ovechkin.
The only things guaranteed are the contracts.
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09-13-2016, 09:54 PM
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#1416
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
We should trade Gaudreau too?
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To Edmonton. For McDavid and Draisaitl.
Bold!
Nah, but really... it's an interesting dilemma. Do you extend him for 8, and watch him fall off, or only give him 2, and have him explode?
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09-13-2016, 09:56 PM
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#1417
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I believe in the Pony Power
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You strive for the longest deal possible - but at the right dollars.
Needs to be the right dollars in all cases really
Best case: longest term possible buying as many UFA years as possible
OK: Bridge deal
Worst case: Longest RFA only deal possible taking him to UFA
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09-13-2016, 09:57 PM
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#1418
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Franchise Player
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exactly
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09-13-2016, 10:04 PM
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#1419
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Participant 
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The most logical decision is to sign Johnny for 4 years under 6 million.
If we aren't contenders by then, we'll have bigger issues.
This keeps Johnny as an RFA who the Flames will have a better read on and let's them see what we have in Bennett and Tkachuk (namely: how much we have to pay them).
On the downside, you're (hopefully) looking at giving Gaudreau a pay raise. You can either give it to him or (if Bennett/Tkachuk prove to be better building blocks) trade him to address an area of weakness.
4 is ideal. But contracts that are 5, 8, 1, and 2 years long are all "avoid at all costs" IMO. 8 might be palatable if you can get him for under 7 mil, but if not, don't give him 8 years.
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09-13-2016, 10:29 PM
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#1420
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
The most logical decision is to sign Johnny for 4 years under 6 million.
If we aren't contenders by then, we'll have bigger issues.
This keeps Johnny as an RFA who the Flames will have a better read on and let's them see what we have in Bennett and Tkachuk (namely: how much we have to pay them).
On the downside, you're (hopefully) looking at giving Gaudreau a pay raise. You can either give it to him or (if Bennett/Tkachuk prove to be better building blocks) trade him to address an area of weakness.
4 is ideal. But contracts that are 5, 8, 1, and 2 years long are all "avoid at all costs" IMO. 8 might be palatable if you can get him for under 7 mil, but if not, don't give him 8 years.
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I'm interested why you're opposed to an 8 year deal? I agree with all your points as to why the other contract lengths are bad. But I'd sign 8x7 (prefer less ofc) if it were up to me.
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