Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

View Poll Results: Assuming a term of 7 years what will Gaudreau's AAV end up being?
6.500 - 6.625 9 1.28%
6.625 - 6.750 5 0.71%
6.750 - 6.875 21 2.99%
6.875 - 7.000 59 8.40%
7.000 - 7.125 89 12.68%
7.125 - 7.250 85 12.11%
7.250 - 7.375 112 15.95%
7.375 - 7.500 102 14.53%
7.500 - 7.625 71 10.11%
7.625 - 7.750 38 5.41%
7.750 - 7.875 39 5.56%
7.875 - 8.000 33 4.70%
8.000 - 8.125 21 2.99%
8.125 - 8.250 6 0.85%
8.250 - 8.375 1 0.14%
8.375 - 8.500 11 1.57%
Voters: 702. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-13-2016, 09:05 PM   #1401
Machiavelli
Franchise Player
 
Machiavelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
Seriously. This.

Dion Phaneuf finished third in Calder voting that year, to Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin. Scored 20 goals as a rookie blueliner, becoming only the third player in NHL history to do that. He had NHL star written all over him, he was much more a franchise generational player than Gaudreau is.

Then, it fell apart.
Phaneuf was at one point my favorite hockey player of all time (other than Iggy). In his prime, he was so much fun to watch. How quickly that imploded. Sigh.
__________________
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. I love power.
Machiavelli is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Machiavelli For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:20 PM   #1402
Yoho
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
Exp:
Default

This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
Yoho is offline  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:24 PM   #1403
JiriHrdina
I believe in the Pony Power
 
JiriHrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho View Post
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
How so? We aren't saying it will happen but rather an example of how promising players don't always live up to that promise.
JiriHrdina is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JiriHrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:27 PM   #1404
Ryan Coke
#1 Goaltender
 
Ryan Coke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI View Post
No, he's johnnys agent Gross testing the waters on some of the arguments to try in negotiations with Brad.
At first I thought gaudreauvertime was from a professional PR/social media company hired by the agent, but based on how poorly he represents Johnny and the agents positions, I realize they aren't professional.

At this point I would guess a friend or family member of someone. Possibly of Johnny, but doubtful. More likely someone from around the agents circle, or a family member of someone who works there. Maybe gaudreauvertime will tell us, but it's the internet so they could say anything.

I wonder what Johnny would think of this 'strategy'.
Ryan Coke is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Ryan Coke For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:32 PM   #1405
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho View Post
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
It's an excellent example of the fact that nothing is certain - even for certain stars.

It's a cautionary tale that illustrates why a team needs to remain responsible and sensible.

You can't pay a player the moon just because everyone thinks they're going to be great.

It's a guaranteed contract - the player will receive it, regardless of whether or not they live up to it. That's why there needs to be a bit of a sober element to it - the team is at risk for the whole thing, regardless.

The flip side is that the player has to take some risk too. Could he become a bigger star and be worth even more money? Of course. But the contract is guaranteed.

If you want a big fat guaranteed contract, you have to leave a little bit on the table to balance the risk.
Enoch Root is online now  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:36 PM   #1406
GranteedEV
Franchise Player
 
GranteedEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho View Post
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
I agree in the sense that Dion's production was inflated by all the power play time and sheltering he got early on.

But that doesn't change the fact that 22 year old Dion Phaneuf, final year of his entry level contract, was 2nd in Norris voting.

Just Behind Nik Lidstrom.

Ahead of Zdeno Chara.

Excuse me as I go purchase an AspireAssist.
__________________

"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
GranteedEV is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:44 PM   #1407
JiriHrdina
I believe in the Pony Power
 
JiriHrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

I think Dion's career got de-railed by some things out of his control and some things within his control
I don't think he was particularly coachable or open to hearing how he could improve. Some of Rhett's comments on 960 reinforce this.
But I think his hip issues had a dramatic impact on his overall mobility and once fast, skilled forwards realized he had challenges pivoting one direction, they started taking advantage of it.
JiriHrdina is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JiriHrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:45 PM   #1408
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

damn you all for reminding me of Icarus Phaneuf.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:45 PM   #1409
TheoFleury
Powerplay Quarterback
 
TheoFleury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho View Post
This comparison to Phaneuf is so bad. Apples to oranges and you know it. The narrative fits so you're running with it, but it doesn't make it any less crazy. Pay him and move on.
I think it's a risk you run with any player really. Gaudreau could become not worth his deal after 3 years, 6 years, not at all... or maybe he puts up 1000 points over the duration. Every player contract has risk outside of the top tier guys. And even then, look at what's happened to Stamkos for instance.
TheoFleury is offline  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:46 PM   #1410
Yoho
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
Exp:
Default

The flip side is the club has to take some educated risk. Johnny is closest things to a generational talent the Flames have ever had. It's obvious. Not paying now will make it very difficult to sign and build a winner later.

He looks like a character from the Matrix on the ice. Do you really want to wait till his value is 12 mill a season to sign?

This is a franchise changing decision coming up IMO...
Yoho is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Yoho For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:47 PM   #1411
JiriHrdina
I believe in the Pony Power
 
JiriHrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

^Again years ago the same thing would have been said about Dion and generational talent.
JiriHrdina is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to JiriHrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:48 PM   #1412
Yoho
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriHrdina View Post
^Again years ago the same thing would have been said about Dion and generational talent.
Fortune favours the bold.
Yoho is offline  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:50 PM   #1413
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

Can Gaudreau still turn left?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:51 PM   #1414
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho View Post
Fortune favours the bold.

We should trade Gaudreau too?
PepsiFree is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:52 PM   #1415
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriHrdina View Post
^Again years ago the same thing would have been said about Dion and generational talent.
Yup. I remember predicting multiple Norris trophies for him.

And in many other seasons, he probably would have won the Calder. But he happened to be a rookie in the same year as Crosby and Ovechkin.

The only things guaranteed are the contracts.
Enoch Root is online now  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:54 PM   #1416
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
We should trade Gaudreau too?
To Edmonton. For McDavid and Draisaitl.

Bold!

Nah, but really... it's an interesting dilemma. Do you extend him for 8, and watch him fall off, or only give him 2, and have him explode?
__________________
Need a great deal on a new or pre-owned car? Come see me at Platinum Mitsubishi — 2720 Barlow Trail NE

TheScorpion is offline  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:56 PM   #1417
JiriHrdina
I believe in the Pony Power
 
JiriHrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

You strive for the longest deal possible - but at the right dollars.

Needs to be the right dollars in all cases really

Best case: longest term possible buying as many UFA years as possible
OK: Bridge deal
Worst case: Longest RFA only deal possible taking him to UFA
JiriHrdina is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JiriHrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 09:57 PM   #1418
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

exactly
Enoch Root is online now  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:04 PM   #1419
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

The most logical decision is to sign Johnny for 4 years under 6 million.

If we aren't contenders by then, we'll have bigger issues.

This keeps Johnny as an RFA who the Flames will have a better read on and let's them see what we have in Bennett and Tkachuk (namely: how much we have to pay them).

On the downside, you're (hopefully) looking at giving Gaudreau a pay raise. You can either give it to him or (if Bennett/Tkachuk prove to be better building blocks) trade him to address an area of weakness.

4 is ideal. But contracts that are 5, 8, 1, and 2 years long are all "avoid at all costs" IMO. 8 might be palatable if you can get him for under 7 mil, but if not, don't give him 8 years.
PepsiFree is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2016, 10:29 PM   #1420
jemjey
Scoring Winger
 
jemjey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: CGY
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
The most logical decision is to sign Johnny for 4 years under 6 million.

If we aren't contenders by then, we'll have bigger issues.

This keeps Johnny as an RFA who the Flames will have a better read on and let's them see what we have in Bennett and Tkachuk (namely: how much we have to pay them).

On the downside, you're (hopefully) looking at giving Gaudreau a pay raise. You can either give it to him or (if Bennett/Tkachuk prove to be better building blocks) trade him to address an area of weakness.

4 is ideal. But contracts that are 5, 8, 1, and 2 years long are all "avoid at all costs" IMO. 8 might be palatable if you can get him for under 7 mil, but if not, don't give him 8 years.
I'm interested why you're opposed to an 8 year deal? I agree with all your points as to why the other contract lengths are bad. But I'd sign 8x7 (prefer less ofc) if it were up to me.
jemjey is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
obsession , roxette


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:29 PM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy