Is the Calgary Flames rebuild ahead of the Edmonton Oilers?

[Erick Estrada]

I still haven't figured out if Staples is a legitimate troll or the worst hockey columnist to ever receive paid compensation for his work. Is there a Brandon Davidson hype train I missed? He's listed as this core player but his resume isn't as good as say Jokipakka who was omitted.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I still haven't figured out if Staples is a legitimate troll or the worst hockey columnist to ever receive paid compensation for his work. Is there a Brandon Davidson hype train I missed? He's listed as this core player but his resume isn't as good as say Jokipakka who was omitted.

When your defense pool is so poor for so long it doesn't take much to set yourself apart. NHL caliber potential. In Edmonton that is a win.

[djsFlames]

I like how he lists 4 Oilers defensemen as "core" pieces.

I wonder what his definition of core is. Or maybe he just wanted to make the Oilers list longer, to at least appear more impressive?

Is Davidson considered a "core" piece if he's on another team? Even Nurse for that matter? I saw some Oil fans writing him in as a 5-6 d-man for this season. Does that mean we can consider Wotherspoon core material, too?

Just questions..

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Par

What do you all think of this article?

https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjo...ton-oilers/amp

Yes 60.33% (1,086 votes)


No 39.67% (714 votes)

hehe

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I wonder what his definition of core is?

That's a very good question, but since we are talking about the Oilers, it needs to be preceded by the phrase "rotten to the".

[Locke]

Whats really sad is the fact that the comments on that article are actually pretty well thought out and humble so far.

They pretty much sum it up: Without McDavid (which was failure being rewarded through sheer stupid luck....again) it isnt even close. If McDavid lives up to his billing then...they're about even.

Except the Flames have exceeded every Oiler accomplishment of the past decade in 3 years.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Locke

Whats really sad is the fact that the comments on that article are actually pretty well thought out and humble so far.

They pretty much sum it up: Without McDavid (which was failure being rewarded through sheer stupid luck....again) it isnt even close. If McDavid lives up to his billing then...they're about even.

Except the Flames have exceeded every Oiler accomplishment of the past decade in 3 years.

Edmonton head office considers winning the McDavid lottery an accomplishment... Probably their greatest accomplishment of the decade.

So I guess that's one thing the Oilers have accomplished that the Flames have not.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Edmonton head office considers winning the McDavid lottery an accomplishment... Probably their greatest accomplishment of the decade.

So I guess that's one thing the Flames haven't accomplished.

You know, I hear this a lot.

Thing is, I volunteer a fair bit and when I was younger I volunteered as a Bingo caller at a community centre for Seniors.

Despite the fact that these people won fairly regularly, at the end of the night I didnt get any credit for helping them win, nor did they share any of their Bingo winnings with me.

I dont see why not. I mean, I pulled the ball out of the bin, and I called it out over the microphone. Did I not do just as much work as they did?

Why did I get no credit?

The real reason is: Any idiot can pull balls out of a bin and win.

MacTavish, Lowe and Pete are proof.

[Macho0978]

Most my friends are Oilers fans and I have this argument on a regular basis. IMO why the flames rebuild is ahead of the Oilers by a fair margin despite the fact that I think Mcdavid will be one of if not the best player in the NHL very soon is you could debate right now who is going to be the better team. No question the Oilers have had a much more aggressive summer in attempts to get better now and basically have left themselves in a spot where if they need to improve again next summer they can only do so by dumping someone else's contract to add what they need. IMO the Oilers need a PP dman before they have any chance of being an eilte team. But I don't see how they can add one unless it comes from within and I just don't see it. They will spend the next 3-4 year finding ways to keep what might just be average together

The Flames have yet to make that bold move and you could argue are the better team. The Flames may or may not have solved the goalie issue but if not they should have tons of cap space available to get someone as well have 3 highly rated goalie prospects. The Flames have 3 top end dmen wrapped up for years. If they need to add they have good prospects that can contend for a spot but that spot they need to fill at worst case scenario is top 4. The Flames also have a good group of forwards that clearly can score at a high level. They also have a good group of 2 way forwards. Just need more depth in this department and having a Bennett and Tkachuk already and if they miss the playoffs more likely another good prospect next draft. Once Gaudreau signs I just don't see how they Flames will be strapped for cap for a long time unless they make a bad signing they have plenty of space and no contract concerns for at least 3-5 years.

The oilers have already gone all in and maybe they surprise everyone but if they don't they could be in trouble each summer for the next 2-3 years while the flames should be able to make moves to add a lot starting next summer without having to sacrifice a Hall to fill the hole

[Bandwagon In Flames]

The Flames also have a better and WAY deeper prospect pool right now.

[Flash Walken]

[Vinny01]

It shows how absolutely horrible the Oilers have been at drafting and the Flames have been somewhat fortunate.

Looking at the Oilers 1st overall picks
2010 - Taylor Hall he is a star winger that can out up points while playing a high flying style. He lacks a really strong hockey IQ and was praised as the saviour when drafted. Rightfully he was sacrificed this year as he was the face of the failed rebuild but was still the second best player they picked with a first pick

2011- Nuge has been a fairly solid player but pretty forgettable as an1st overall. Other first picks that were centres since the 05 lockout - Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews will all likely be better players when it is all said and done. RNH is a solid 2nd line C but lacks the star power of a typical 1st overall

2012- Yakupov is a huge bust. Plain and simple this guy sucks not even listed as a core player in the article being discussed yet a bum like Davidson is.

2015- McDavid by all accounts is the real deal franchise centre that doesn't come around too often. Shocking they still picked 1st in 2015 when they started this tank build 5 years earlier.

Flames top 10 picks

2013- Monahan was the no brainer pick and easy for the Flames to make. They wanted a big centre that was NHL ready and got the perfect guy. He has more than lived up to the hype as he is a legit top centre before he is 22 with multiple 60+pt seasons

2014- Bennett another no brainer pick. A solid rookie season Bennett has the tools to become our top centre when he hits his prime in a couple years.

2016- Tkachuk is the last absolute no brainer for the Flames. When Monahan and Bennett were drafted the Flames lacked elite centre prospects for years. This year our biggest organizational needs for prospects and current players was size on the wing. Tkachuk fits the organization perfectly and has the ability to jump straight to the league.

For the Oilers the 3 years we picked top 10 they added Nurse who is a hard hitting Dman, Drasaitl a big skilled centre, and Puljujarvi a big skilled winger. Personally I think Nurse amounts to very little, Drasaitl has shown great flashes that he should be the Oilers number 2 C over Nuge, and Puljujarvi is an excellent prospect and likely the top line RW to play with McDavid.

The Flames draft luck was not only their top 10 picks. 5 years later the consensus is the Flames picked the best player in the 2011 draft 104th overall. Johnny Gaudreau is a superstar and the face of our team. In my opinion McDavid is the only Oilers player that will be in the same tier as him going forward.

In 2008 the Oilers thought they got the steal of the draft getting skilled winger Jordan Eberle late in the first round. The Flames drafted TJ Brodie in the 4th round and he is a star in the making and a legit top pairing Dman. In2915 the Oilers got the top pick but the Flames stole the show by trading draft picks for 22 year old stud Dman Dougie Hamilton. The Flames added a right shot, puck moving Dman that was a similar age of their core and who can grow with the star forwards on the team.

In terms of older vets the Oilers have Lucic, Sekera, Pouliot, Fayne to name a few. The Flames have Giordano, Backlund, Frolik, Brouwer which is a stronger group IMO.

Goaltending is still up in the air but I take Eliott over Talbot and Johnson over the Monster everyday. Not sure if either team has their long term starter.

I feel the Flames have built the better team and are further ahead despite having far less top picks

[calgaryblood]

How many times do the Flames need to out score the Oilers before they stop believing their Forwards are better than ours? How many years in a row have we out scored them?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I question this.

Where do they rank in terms of goals scored per game?

From a post on HFBoards:

2015-16 Team leaders in goals scored by forwards, ignoring empty net goals scored by forwards:

30. Carolina (151)
T28. Arizona (153)
T28. Toronto (153)
27. Vancouver (155)
T25. Buffalo (158)
T25. New Jersey (158)
24. Nashville (159)
T22. Philadelphia (160)
T22. Winnipeg (160)
T20. Colorado (161)
T20. Minnesota (161)
T18. Anaheim (169)*
T18. Edmonton (169)
T16. Detroit (170)
T16. St. Louis (170)
15. Calgary (171)
14. Los Angeles (173)
13. Ottawa (176)
12. San Jose (177)
T10. New York Islanders (179)
T10. New York Rangers (179)
9. Tampa Bay (180)
8. Columbus (181)
7. Montreal (183)
6. Chicago (186)
5. Florida (191)
4. Pittsburgh (197)
3. Boston (198)
2. Washington (205)
1. Dallas (210)

FWIW our team could stand to step it up in that area too. Backlund/Frolik have to maintain and Bennett/Tkachuk have to take it up a level as steady 25G guys

[CroFlames]

It was said the Oilers forward group is CLEARLY better than Calgary's.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I still haven't figured out if Staples is a legitimate troll or the worst hockey columnist to ever receive paid compensation for his work. Is there a Brandon Davidson hype train I missed? He's listed as this core player but his resume isn't as good as say Jokipakka who was omitted.

I believe he's actually the Journal's Civic Affairs columnist. The hockey blog is on the side and doesn't appear in the paper. So he's clearly just a fanboy. It shows.

Postmedia uses a number of unpaid "Citizen Bloggers" on their websites. Staples' day job just happens to be with Postmedia, albeit in a different capacity.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

How many times do the Flames need to out score the Oilers before they stop believing their Forwards are better than ours? How many years in a row have we out scored them?

I really want to know the answer to this.

When was the last time the Oilers scored more goals than the Flames. 2011?

[Samonadreau]

Thing is even if they score 2 more goals this year (which i dont think will happen) we will let in about 40 fewer and I'll get over it pretty quick

[FiveSeven]

Considering how many years of a head start Oilers had on the Flames, the fact that this is even a topic of discussion says enough.

It's getting close, but holes in our roster are soon to be filled or are easier to replace via FA than the holes the Oilers have...

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I really want to know the answer to this.

When was the last time the Oilers scored more goals than the Flames. 2011?

Yep. Edmonton had 207 and the Flames had 199 that year.