The New American Politics thread

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The knee-jerk tendency to label as a "Trump Supporter" anyone who has any sympathy for of Trump's positions, or doesn't think he's a rampaging racist bigot, or has anything good to say about the guy whatsoever, is really annoying. This is the manichean mode that Peter was complaining about. There are, even in this election, shades of gray. I thought Clinton's speech on the Alt-right was a bunch of tone-deaf self-righteous moralizing bull####. This does not mean that I am a member of the alt-Right, or any other flavour of the "Right".

Buster has said he doesn't support the guy. He probably knows his own thoughts better than you do. You are not psychic.

There was no personal attack, it's just my opinion. Relax.

[HotHotHeat]

I think it's finally setting in for Democrats how poor Hillary Clinton is as a candidate.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I believe there's still time to slide Biden in and win a total landslide. I would imagine they're at least considering the possibility. If her poll numbers collapse next week when we get the first sets of polls after this, maybe it'll happen. Obvious nightmare scenario for the GOP, which is why they might wanna slow their roll with the "She's dying" angle and maybe try and make her appear just fine. They need her in at the end to have a shot.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Even so, I just don't see how it gets worse for Clinton than the below outcome:

Spoiler!

It's possible she tanks completely I guess. But that map is being very generous to Trump's chances by giving him all of NV, IA, NH, FLA, OH, NC and the Maine 3rd. Maybe he flips Colorado, or he's counting on winning PA, but both are pretty long odds it seems to me.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I believe there's still time to slide Biden in and win a total landslide. I would imagine they're at least considering the possibility. If her poll numbers collapse next week when we get the first sets of polls after this, maybe it'll happen. Obvious nightmare scenario for the GOP, which is why they might wanna slow their roll with the "She's dying" angle and maybe try and make her appear just fine. They need her in at the end to have a shot.

The thought has crossed my mind, but Biden is 73 and Sanders is 75.

In the future the parties should start looking at younger candidates. Most people retire at 65.

How could a new candidate be chosen?
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...s-how-a-n.html

[Izzle]

Chase MitchellVerified account
‏@ChaseMit
This is the first time Republicans have cared about a woman's health.

Link to tweet:
https://twitter.com/ChaseMit/status/775069459266625538

I found it funny.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The knee-jerk tendency to label as a "Trump Supporter" anyone who has any sympathy for of Trump's positions, or doesn't think he's a rampaging racist bigot, or has anything good to say about the guy whatsoever, is really annoying. This is the manichean mode that Peter was complaining about. There are, even in this election, shades of gray. I thought Clinton's speech on the Alt-right was a bunch of tone-deaf self-righteous moralizing bull####. This does not mean that I am a member of the alt-Right, or any other flavour of the "Right".

Sadly, this is the way American politics has evolved. You're either with us, or against us, to quote the last great president from the American right. This is what dichotomous systems breed. It isn't Manichean, it is modern binary thinking. No good or evil construct, just an open or closed state.

I think Trump supporter is the wrong term. A more accurate term, and an even more damning term, is Trump sympathizer. This election really is boiling down to which cultural norm is going to be considered acceptable. Is Trump's obnoxious, arrogant, xenophobic, verbal diarrhea going to become the standard, or are we going to retain some level of civility and decorum within our society? Trump has said some of the worst things heard on the campaign trail since before the 1st world war,and is encouraging things not seen at political gatherings since the turn of the 19th century. It isn't about the exchange of ideas, it is about saying stupid #### that inflames specific feelings in certain people in the country. A good chunk of people he has reached are those society has long considered the fringe and the part we most want to disappear. When you make excuses for those people you sympathize with their position and, like it or not, you end up being lumped in with them.

I do find it ironic that the set who is so quick to attack the regressive left is now making excuses for the alt right. Frankly, the alt right need to called out. They need to be marginalized. They need to be treated like the cancer they are and dealt with as quickly as possible, so we don't see the disease spread and kill the patient in a very painful way. The garbage they espouse is not acceptable in an advanced society. Extremism on either end of the spectrum needs to be marginalized, not embraced. Sympathizing with the extremes does not help forward our society as a whole. If we're demanding Muslims eliminate the extremists from their society shouldn't we be doing the same with ours?

Buster has said he doesn't support the guy. He probably knows his own thoughts better than you do. You are not psychic.

You're right. Buster does know his own thoughts, but he is a Trump sympathizer. There is no way you can deny this. Buster is also a troll, and gets off on people battling over his comments. So you jumping to his defense is not only feeding his desire for attention, no, need for attention, but you lend another voice to that reality show and provide some level of validation to his arguments. based on his extremist views, I don't think a smart guy like yourself wants to end up being on that side of the argument.

[peter12]

Echo chamber.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

Echo chamber.

What happens when Peter's wife whispers sweet nothings into his ear.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by peter12

Echo chamber.

Don't challenge ideas or it's an echo chamber.

Or...

Call a troll a troll.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by peter12

Echo chamber.

Considering the Trump nomination was birthed in an American Conservative echo chamber, it seems hilarious to slander the opposing side with that term. Also seeing a lot of false equivalency, as if we should approach both candidates with equal suspicion when one is clearly worse.

People who support Donald Trump for President should be ridiculed and reviled, he represents the worse of America. History won't look kindly on the latest embrace of populist xenophobia.

[Street Pharmacist]

The dangerous part to me is this notion that racist dog whistle style pandering and policies designed to separate whites from other shall not be called racist because somehow it's not explicit. It's as though context and nuance do not help us understand

[Dentoman]

This thread is actually better than the last lockout thread .... with at least one of the main posters involved in both. He didn't make it through that one unbanned (I don't think), hanging on in this one.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by New Era

It isn't Manichean, it is modern binary thinking. No good or evil construct, just an open or closed state.

I disagree. There's clearly a "good vs. evil" thing going on here. The language used against Trump is highly moralistic, both in situations where it's warranted and those where it isn't. This is also true of Clinton, especially when she was up against Bernie.

I think Trump supporter is the wrong term. A more accurate term, and an even more damning term, is Trump sympathizer.

First, what does this mean? Second, why is it "more damning"? If you have anything positive to say about Trump that's "damning"? What a horrible attitude to have.

I do find it ironic that the set who is so quick to attack the regressive left is now making excuses for the alt right. Frankly, the alt right need to called out. They need to be marginalized. They need to be treated like the cancer they are and dealt with as quickly as possible

This is downright frightening language. The alt right is already a marginalized group, they're fringe. They aren't a cancer. They're obnoxious, sure, but this hyperbolic rhetoric is exactly the problem. I'd rather they be able to be obnoxious in their own little corner of the world as they have been, doing no one any real harm, than to have people like you declare yourself the arbiter of what political groups should be eliminated from the discussion. If they're wrong, they're wrong; rebut their arguments to the extent they even have any.

If we're demanding Muslims eliminate the extremists from their society shouldn't we be doing the same with ours?

The alt right doesn't even silence anyone, much less murder them for their beliefs or sexual orientation. I don't even think that Islamist groups should be banned or whatever, just recognized for what they are and loudly and soundly rejected. If that's all you're calling for, a loud denunciation of what the alt-right actually believes, then fine, but that's not what you seem to be suggesting here.

You're right. Buster does know his own thoughts, but he is a Trump sympathizer. There is no way you can deny this.

I'm still not clear on what it means. I'm sure he has some sympathy for some of the things Trump has said on this campaign, whether it's 5% or 25% or somewhere in between. Hell, I haven't looked very hard, but I bet I could find at least a few things Trump has said that I'd agree with.

So you jumping to his defense is not only feeding his desire for attention, no, need for attention, but you lend another voice to that reality show and provide some level of validation to his arguments. based on his extremist views, I don't think a smart guy like yourself wants to end up being on that side of the argument.

I speak for myself. I'm on my own "side of the argument" and no one else's. Trying to tie someone to another person's views that they haven't expressed, whether it be you trying to tie me to another poster or trying to tie another poster to a candidate's views, that's completely intellectually dishonest and facile.

[MissTeeks]

This thread has made hockey offseason bearable!

[Drak]

So far, from what I can tell, they haven't touched much on the Clinton fainting issue on CNN. Maybe they'll start digging in later today.

[Buster]

https://twitter.com/foxandfriends/st...91384714539008

Trump's first comments (I think) on Hillary's collapse yesterday.

Seems pretty "presidential" to me. Certainly by Trump's standards. Pretty savvy tone to take.

Edit: I don't know how to embed twitter videos, or if you can.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Drak

So far, from what I can tell, they haven't touched much on the Clinton fainting issue on CNN. Maybe they'll start digging in later today.

It's literally the top story on their website, couldn't speak to their TV coverage. This definitely has legs, now it comes down to which lens they choose to view it through. It could be "Hillary is the walking dead, she'll die in office, she bamboozled us all again, doom, DOOOOOOOM!" or it could be "she has pneumonia and dehydration, the fact that she was even out doing events is impressive and shows her strength and resolve."

In the end though will it matter? Probably not. Trump will drop and N bomb or something in the next couple of days and get the spotlight back on himself.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

It's literally the top story on their website, couldn't speak to their TV coverage. This definitely has legs, now it comes down to which lens they choose to view it through. It could be "Hillary is the walking dead, she'll die in office, she bamboozled us all again, doom, DOOOOOOOM!" or it could be "she has pneumonia and dehydration, the fact that she was even out doing events is impressive and shows her strength and resolve."

In the end though will it matter? Probably not. Trump will drop and N bomb or something in the next couple of days and get the spotlight back on himself.

Yah I meant the TV. I was talking to my wife about it and she's had it on for awhile and said they hadn't really spoken of it yet.

I think it has legs for sure but there's plenty of time before the election. Her numbers will probably drop some over the next few weeks and Trump will make gains. But I'm not too worried.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

It's literally the top story on their website, couldn't speak to their TV coverage. This definitely has legs, now it comes down to which lens they choose to view it through. It could be "Hillary is the walking dead, she'll die in office, she bamboozled us all again, doom, DOOOOOOOM!" or it could be "she has pneumonia and dehydration, the fact that she was even out doing events is impressive and shows her strength and resolve."

In the end though will it matter? Probably not. Trump will drop and N bomb or something in the next couple of days and get the spotlight back on himself.

From a voter psychology point of view, I'm not sure if it matters which happens above.

All people will see is the would-be Commander-in-Chief collapsing on 9-11. That sears itself into your brain in a way a doctor statement can't. Other than an FBI indictment at the 9-11 site, it is literally the worst possible thing that could have happened to her.