09-08-2016, 09:27 AM
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#21
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Not to speak for Seb C, but I believe he's referring to 12 step programs as being pseudo-religious (which is true), and also being a program that isn't necessarily based on research, but rather dogma (only partially true).
However, considering how many people do well on 12 step programs, it's not a bad idea to start there if you're an addict.
__________________
"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
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09-08-2016, 09:33 AM
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#22
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashpoint
I'm a little disappointed the teams didn't take a bigger role in trying to help out a player who was clearly having issues.
Wpg in particular where he speculates they knew about his problem since he was drinking in their casino. Cgy, similarly if he's demoted on account of substance abuse, what kind of example is that for people up and coming?
Of course, once again McGrattan figures in looking after a teammate.
Love that guy.
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I may have my timeline mixed up, but I thought he was clean while in the NHL and his play simply wasn't where it needed to be. He was subsequently sent down, and fell back into the substance abuse because of his demotion to the minors. He wasn't demoted because of substance abuse.
Again I may be wrong though.
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09-08-2016, 10:29 AM
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#23
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Leduc, AB
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I couldn't even hope to comprehend what someone with a crippling addiction goes through but I'm sure you can't cater and coddle a grown adult into getting clean, consequences have to definitely be part of it. Now to what extreme the consequences are could easily be discussed but saying there shall not be consequences for this "disease" called substance abuse is ridiculous. Especially since the person has to WANT to change and get better, it can't be forced, shock value tends to get through to blind addiction as bad as it sounds it's usually necessary.
I feel bad for people who are dangerously addicted and am always glad to hear about success stories like Grats, etc...
__________________
"As far as I'm concerned I take it one day at a time because if you look too far down the road that's when you get yourself in trouble. You've gotta enjoy the process and not be burdened by the outcome." - Jon Gillies
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09-08-2016, 10:36 AM
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#24
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Flame Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
I may have my timeline mixed up, but I thought he was clean while in the NHL and his play simply wasn't where it needed to be. He was subsequently sent down, and fell back into the substance abuse because of his demotion to the minors. He wasn't demoted because of substance abuse.
Again I may be wrong though.
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Uhh what? Did you read the article?
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09-08-2016, 10:52 AM
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#25
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Franchise Player
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No.
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09-08-2016, 10:58 AM
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#26
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Flame Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
No.
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Knowledge is power. You should spend some time gaining some.
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09-08-2016, 10:58 AM
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#27
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Franchise Player
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I bet you feel super powerful having read that article eh
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09-08-2016, 10:59 AM
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#28
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Flame Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
I bet you feel super powerful having read that article eh
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Well I sure don't feel like a dumb ass right now.
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09-08-2016, 11:23 AM
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#29
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Franchise Player
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Yup, still the offseason.
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09-08-2016, 12:44 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole436
They need consequences for having a disease? Are you for real with that?
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Are you real with letting it slide? Would you feel the same way about a DUI for an alcoholic? They have a disease so they get a pass?
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09-08-2016, 01:07 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole436 
They need consequences for having a disease? Are you for real with that?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblobla
Are you real with letting it slide? Would you feel the same way about a DUI for an alcoholic? They have a disease so they get a pass?
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I think both of you are speaking of two different things. Yeah, a DUI deserves punishment but being an alcoholic or other substance abuser in itself shouldn't and this is what has gone on in our society when treating these diseases. A person can get thrown in jail for just possessing an illegal drug which is punishment for having a disease.
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09-08-2016, 02:02 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm right behind you
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole436
They need consequences for having a disease? Are you for real with that?
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I hate this garbage about addictions being a disease. Alcoholism and addictions are not diseases! They are Cognitive Behaviour Dysfunctions. Calling them diseases cheapens the plight of those who really do have actual diseases threatening their lives.
I'm not saying that addicts are in full control of their addictions or that it is their fault that they have said addictions. It would just behove them to refer to addictions as what they are as opposed to sticking with a term that was thrust upon it by people who didn't have a better placeholder at the time.
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Don't fear me. Trust me.
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09-08-2016, 03:11 PM
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#34
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Flame Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbsy
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[URL="https://twitter.com/garylawless"]
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You know things are bad when Evander Kane thinks you need help.
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09-08-2016, 03:33 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbsy
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[URL="https://twitter.com/garylawless"]
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Good guy Kane
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09-08-2016, 04:33 PM
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#36
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbsy
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[URL="https://twitter.com/garylawless"]
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Wow. Would not expect that from Kane. That's changed my mind a bit about him
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09-08-2016, 04:35 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio
Wow. Would not expect that from Kane. That's changed my mind a bit about him
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Yeah, I expected Big Ern to be the force of divine intervention that Kane was... Evander's just about the last name I expected to step in and try to help a teammate in trouble. But good on him.
__________________
Until the Flames make the Western Finals again, this signature shall remain frozen.
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09-08-2016, 05:06 PM
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#38
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Flame Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaskal
Yeah, I expected Big Ern to be the force of divine intervention that Kane was... Evander's just about the last name I expected to step in and try to help a teammate in trouble. But good on him.
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To be fair Ferland credited Bob Hartley with getting his sobriety on track. You'd have to think Hartley if not someone else would of tried to reach out to the guy. It's not like Kanes attempt worked out.
But really when it comes to alcohol, you can't help people who can't help themselves. And from reading the article it sounded like Setoguchi was good at masking his illness. Not the kind of guy to ask for help until reaching "Rock Bottom".
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09-09-2016, 01:53 PM
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#39
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Jordan!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
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That's a #### ton of booze. Wow, glad he's turned it around
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09-11-2016, 09:58 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
I may have my timeline mixed up, but I thought he was clean while in the NHL and his play simply wasn't where it needed to be. He was subsequently sent down, and fell back into the substance abuse because of his demotion to the minors. He wasn't demoted because of substance abuse.
Again I may be wrong though.
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The article didn't touch upon it, but if I remember correctly, part of his contract with the Flames involved a discussion of his sobriety.
I recall reading an article where Setoguchi mentioned that he was sober for about 2-3 weeks while playing on the Flames, then fell off the wagon. The discussion was just prior to him getting a PTO with the Leafs. It seems this article is about after he fell off the wagon, or a different angle/snapshot in the story.
EDIT: I found the discussion. Sureloss put a summary in the top of the thread.
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?p=5445040
Irregardless of the hockey stuff, I'm glad he's getting his life on track. Good luck to him.
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