The Left Lane/Right Lane Thunderdome Thread

[habernac]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So I drove the QE2 back today and it was a classic example of where the stay right concept doesn't always work.
Due to the heavy traffic from trailers and RV, the right lane was only moving at about 100.
People generally in the left lane were moving at about 120-125, so it was pretty busy with traffic moving along at about that speed.
But then you had a third group of people who couldn't handle that and were trying to still drive 140 - passing on the right. Trailgaiting. Etc.

My favourite was the jackass in the semi on Hwy 1 aggressively cutting off people. You can't drive like you're in a Honda Accord, pal.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by 4X4

If the cars behind you also move over, it's their way of saying that they're happy with your speed, and you are the leader.

I'm pretty sure this scenario has never happened in the history of automobile transportation.

[PepsiFree]

Semi drivers are possibly the worst of the worst. They should, by law, have to stick the the right lane. In fact, anyone driving more than four wheels should be in the right lane only.

Yeah... I like that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you're keeping pace with the car in front of you and you're in a bit of a line all going faster than the right lane, there is zero reason to move over that I can imagine.

Precisely why people pass on the right - the left lane is not for continual cruising. The fact that you're considering only the cars in front of you, and not the cars behind you, is a problem.

If people are passing on the right, then there is open room on the right. That means get back over.

Its when people are inconsiderate of the people behind them that causes people to pass on the right.

Here's a simple fact: if everyone gets over when there is room to do so, no one would/could ever pass on the right.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Precisely why people pass on the right - the left lane is not for continual cruising. The fact that you're considering only the cars in front of you, and not the cars behind you, is a problem.

If people are passing on the right, then there is open room on the right. That means get back over.

Its when people are inconsiderate of the people behind them that causes people to pass on the right.

Here's a simple fact: if everyone gets over when there is room to do so, no one would/could ever pass on the right.

Oversimplifying.
Allow me to add an important word that is being ignored here.

If people are SAFELY passing on the right, then there is open room on the right.

[PepsiFree]

Yeah that's actually not relevant to what I said at all. Good luck passing on the right when it's congested and moving 10-15 km slower though!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Oversimplifying.
Allow me to add an important word that is being ignored here.

If people are SAFELY passing on the right, then there is open room on the right.

Once again, you are trying to justify your actions by judging the actions of others.

If someone is passing you on the right, there was room to get over. Period. Whether or not you think they are driving poorly is irrelevant. If you can get over, you should.

Stop judging others and focus on your own driving. You aren't the traffic police.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah that's actually not relevant to what I said at all. Good luck passing on the right when it's congested and moving 10-15 km slower though!

Read the post you quoted. I said 'if there's room to pass on the right'...

That means the right lane is open for a space.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

The leader? LOL.

Yes, another exceedingly simple concept that is lost on most.

While driving, do one of three things:
-Lead
-Follow
-Get the hell out of the way

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Precisely why people pass on the right - the left lane is not for continual cruising. The fact that you're considering only the cars in front of you, and not the cars behind you, is a problem.

If people are passing on the right, then there is open room on the right. That means get back over.

Its when people are inconsiderate of the people behind them that causes people to pass on the right.

Here's a simple fact: if everyone gets over when there is room to do so, no one would/could ever pass on the right.

How should a group of cars pass a semi truck on a highway that is approaching capacity?

You could have everyone in the right line with the left lane empty with one car moving out at a time to pass the semi. This cuts the carrying capacity of the roadway in half.

You could have one person pull out an pass the semi then as others get to the tail of the passing car they pull out to the left creating the situation described above where you have a 10 car line in the left lane with an open gap in the right lane.

Ideally the people passing the semi accelerate to the left lanes prevailing speed so as not to slow down the lane but in going around a slow moving right lane vehicle filling the right lane then trying to squeeze into the higher speed lane right before making the pass is going to create more break checking and reduce the over all capacity of the highway.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Read the post you quoted. I said 'if there's room to pass on the right'...



That means the right lane is open for a space.

Uh I didn't quote your post. Who are you talking to?

Either way, it's weird for you to be telling Jiri he's not the road police, when all you're currently doing is attempting to police the driving of others with your own opinions on how it should work. You don't see the hypocrisy in that at all?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Once again, you are trying to justify your actions by judging the actions of others.

If someone is passing you on the right, there was room to get over. Period. Whether or not you think they are driving poorly is irrelevant. If you can get over, you should.

Stop judging others and focus on your own driving. You aren't the traffic police.

OK boss.

I was in the situation - you weren't. So who is better equipped to judge?

No - it isn't always safe to move over to the right, if it is already highly congested.

Basically you seem to think that everyone should orient their driving to accommodate the idiots going 140.

That's now how it works.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Either way, it's weird for you to be telling Jiri he's not the road police, when all you're currently doing is attempting to police the driving of others with your own opinions on how it should work. You don't see the hypocrisy in that at all?

Jiri is policing behaviour associated with excessive speeding and dangerous driving. We have an actual police force for that.

Enoch is policing behaviour associated with efficiency and unwritten "rules of the road" that he says will result in traffic flowing more smoothly and quickly. This isn't usually overseen by anyone and depends on everyone mutually following best practices.

That is why there is no hypocrisy.

[JiriHrdina]

How am I policing anything?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Jiri is policing behaviour associated with excessive speeding and dangerous driving. We have an actual police force for that.



Enoch is policing behaviour associated with efficiency and unwritten "rules of the road" that he says will result in traffic flowing more smoothly and quickly. This isn't usually overseen by anyone and depends on everyone mutually following best practices.



That is why there is no hypocrisy.

That is a patently dumb way of looking at that, and a bit of a reach even for you.

It's hypocritical because Enoch is making a personal judgement claim on the way the roads ought to be driven, while condemning Jiri for making a personal judgement claim on the way the roads ought to be driven.

It's irrelevant what is policed and what isn't. If anything, a judgement revolving around safety and the law is infinitely more valid than one based on the "unwritten rules."

But hey, if you think it's more appropriate to judge drivers based on the merit of their lane choice vs the danger they pose to your life because "the cops handle that!" then please park the Z forever, because you don't belong on the road.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

How am I policing anything?

You said something was unsafe. Get off the road you monster, we have actual police for that!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Precisely why people pass on the right - the left lane is not for continual cruising. The fact that you're considering only the cars in front of you, and not the cars behind you, is a problem.

This completely ignores traffic congestion. On a road like the #2 between Calgary and Edmonton on a weekend, there is far too much traffic for the left lane to only be used to pass. If 80 per cent of the cars are in the right lane at any given time, those cars would be bumper to bumper the entire length of the road, and doing about 70.

What you have is a situation something like:

10% of drivers who want to be doing < 100k
30% who want to be doing 100-110
30% who want to be doing 110-120
20% who want to be doing 120-130
10% who want to be doing 130+

If everyone on the road defers to the wants of the last 10 per cent, the right lane would be far too congested, and many more drivers would end up driving slower than they want than if the last 10 per cent sucks it up and realizes they're going to have to be happy with 120.

The faster driver doesn't always trump the slowest. And yes, speed limits factor in to how much you should expect other drivers to defer to your wants. We don't have autobahns in Canada.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

After so much discussion I think it all comes back to speed variance.

Maybe cars should only have levels. You can only do 100/110/120 etc on the highway, no in betweens. And if you don't use cruise control your car shocks you.

Like this:

Spoiler!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It's irrelevant what is policed and what isn't. If anything, a judgement revolving around safety and the law is infinitely more valid than one based on the "unwritten rules."

Why?

There is an arguable rationale for the statement "you shouldn't be the one overseeing the problems you've identified". It is, simply, that these things are best left to the police, who ordinarily enforce them. You might disagree with that rationale (and it seems you do given the second sentence in the above quote), but it's not bad advice to leave enforcing laws to the police - in fact, it applies more broadly to other behaviour in society. That rationale does not apply to unwritten rules of the road that are generally not dealt with by police.

Because of this, there is by definition no hypocrisy in what Enoch is saying, whether you agree with him or not. Hypocrisy is what you accused him of. All I did was point out that this was wrong.

[JiriHrdina]

But how am I 'overseeing' or enforcing anything? I'm not - I'm merely offering up my viewpoints on what I saw. I've not talked about drivers enforcing anything.
In short - what are you on about?