Kerry Killed A Teenage Foe; Lied To Gain Medal

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Aug 5 2004, 04:58 PM
Thanks to Al Gore, we do have the internet!

A nice right wing creation based on a bad misquote. I can't remember who he said it to, during what interview, but he did not say that "he invented the internet". Al Gore stated that he chaired the committee that was responsible for the developments that turned Arpanet into the tool that we consider the internet today. He never took credit for anything other than chairing a committee overseeing developments of a communication media. The right wing whackos (I believe it was Gingrich and Limbaugh that were responsible for getting this ball rolling) twisted the quote and made something out it that it was not. The real interesting thing about this, is that Gore never stood up for himself and defended what he really said. He allowed the loud mouth right wingers to team him to shreads over a mistake that THEY made.

This is the most interesting thing about American politics that just fascinates me. The Republicans paint themselves as this holy order bent on protecting all that is good in America, and paint the Democrats as a bunch of communists bent on destroying America. The funny thing is that Republicans are an aggressive animal that will jump on a weakness and lie through their teeth to blow a small fault into a huge one. They play dirty politics and play it well. The Democrats are goodie goodies who don't have a clue how to play dirty and when they try end up shooting themselves in the foot. Both parties have some good people and some great ideas. If they could get past the partisan bullsh*t they could return America to the head of the class. As it sits both parties are responsible for America sitting in the cirner wearing a dunce hat for the world to laugh at (although the Republicans have the original dunce leading the party and responsible for much of the hate that is directed at the US). As an interested impartial observer I think the whole process is fascinating. Broken, but fascinating all the same.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Five-hole@Aug 5 2004, 05:18 PM
Well, if you want to talk about military service records, would you rather vote for a guy who did his duty and possibly saved his compatriots lives, or for someone who went AWOL for over a year?

Or vote for a president that went out of his way to avoid any type of service what so ever

*cough* Clinton *cough*

[Displaced Flames fan]

Wow, Al Gore inventing the internet is a quote used only in a comedic sense as far as I know. It wasn't being used to rip Al Gore. Why do I need to rip Al Gore. Al Gore is about as irrelevant as you are in American Politics.

Impressive that you came up with 2 paragraphs to condemn me for essentially laughing at something Gore has laughed at himself about.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

With regards to Clinton isn't the Vietnam Police Action/War a bad example when one is to think of how patriotic an individual is and whatnot.
________
DENTAL INSURANCE FORUM

[Cowperson]

An update: This is getting uglier by the minute.

Apparently this accusation is in the form of a political television advertisement as well and released today.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/...rans/index.html

This afternoon, Senator John McCain, Republican, who spent a lot of years in a Vietnamese prison after being shot down, called on President Bush to denouce the attack ad. McCain called it "dishonest and dishonourable."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/05/...n.ap/index.html

Cowperson

[Displaced Flames fan]

Further to what Cow said, President Bush has said today that these type of ads shouldn't be allowed and called for Kerry to join him in fighting to eliminate independent ads for Presidential campaigns. I agree wholeheartedly.



edited to add: What I wrote above can be verified at the bottom of Cow's first link.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Aug 5 2004, 10:59 PM
With regards to Clinton isn't the Vietnam Police Action/War a bad example when one is to think of how patriotic an individual is and whatnot.

Not in my mind

yes it might have been a poorly fought or unjust war. But when his country called Clinton was nowhere to be found.

If people are going to examine Bush's military record, and Kerry's military record, then Clinton should undergo some scrutiny as well.

The Democrats are not all lilly white and innocent on this.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by fotze@Aug 5 2004, 11:07 PM
I don't understand why war/military record is such an vital issue in these elections. Would anyone want the drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket to be President?

Different things are different motivators in different countries.

In Canada, a guy who puts God as far out in front as Bush does would be toast - Stockwell Day. A military record is interesting but not particularly relevant.

In the USA, I would say greater weight is placed on military service - definitely a plus - and having God somewhere on your platform is almost a necessity.

Cowperson

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Does refusing to fight in an unjust war (or what now appears to be an unjust war) make him any less of a president, and by that same token does having him being a war hero make him any more of a president. I think that Clinton did a pretty good job, even if he didn't fight in Vietnam. If he did fight in Vietnam would it have made him a better president, unlikely.
________
Buy vaporizers

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Aug 5 2004, 10:55 PM
Impressive that you came up with 2 paragraphs to condemn me for essentially laughing at something Gore has laughed at himself about.

Who was ripping you Dis? I was actually pointing out that the Republicans, making a real generalization here btw, are a bunch of liers that will jump on the slightest slip up and blow it way out of proportion. Now unless you are one of those right wing wackos that I am refering to, I have no idea how you took this as a slam. I was just making a point about the way the election is going and how this falls right in line with the Republican electorial machine. A little over-sensitive Dis?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Aug 5 2004, 11:32 PM
Does refusing to fight in an unjust war (or what now appears to be an unjust war) make him any less of a president, and by that same token does having him being a war hero make him any more of a president. I think that Clinton did a pretty good job, even if he didn't fight in Vietnam. If he did fight in Vietnam would it have made him a better president, unlikely.

To add to that, I think it takes a lot more balls to be a conscientous objector than it does to get into the National Guard and then have daddy pull strings to keep you out of action. Clinton got run over for his military record, maybe Bush should as well?

I agree with what Cow was saying about religion and military service. Its really interesting how those things play out down here. In Canada, Bush would be done for pushing his religious beliefs out front AND for having his father keep his butt out of the war. Down here Bush gets supported for each. Its really strange IMO.

[sbailey924]

Politics in America has almost always been more about the characters instead of the issues. Politicians used to have gun duels. Tennessee's own Andrew Jackson probably wouldn't have been elected if it weren't for his "Indian Fightin'." The overstressing of spirituality/military experience/charisma is really quite funny to me in a dark way. Here in the Bible Belt it seems like the stereotypes are almost entirely true about how petty things determine a person's vote.

From what I understand, Bush's campaign hasn't told he veterans' group to stop the ad. I think that would go a lot further thant simply saying "we don't need these ads." That might also set the tone for liberal organizations like MoveOn to keep from being dirty. I find it funny how politicians on both sides always say puiblicly "I'm not going to run a negative campaign"," and then brutal attack ads follow, and they aren't asked about the m being negative. To that, I think the line, cheesiness aside, "I'm __, and I approve this message" has helped a lot.

[CaptainCrunch]

To add to that, I think it takes a lot more balls to be a conscientous objector than it does to get into the National Guard and then have daddy pull strings to keep you out of action. Clinton got run over for his military record, maybe Bush should as well?

No it takes balls to actual go over your objections, do your part and make a change based on your experiences. I guess I have problems with a conscientous objector in this day and age when the military is a volunteer army. However even in the Vietnam era if you were in the Military you could apply for Conscientous objector status and either receive a dishonerable discharge, or a transfer to another profession within the Military. I have a lot of trouble with the draft dodgers that fled up to Canada. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

On the Clinton one he attempted to dodge the draft by joining a ROTC program, and waited until the draft became a lottery. There aren't any real differences between what Clinton did and what Bush did. I have very little respect for either man. And like I said before it comes across as a little hypocritical that the Democrats go after Bush's record when one of thier modern day Icon's did the same thing.

I have no trouble with Kerry's military record and what he did to earn it. At least he had the balls to go over to Vietnam and do his part and witness things first hand before he became an anti-war protestor.

I agree with what Cow was saying about religion and military service. Its really interesting how those things play out down here. In Canada, Bush would be done for pushing his religious beliefs out front AND for having his father keep his butt out of the war. Down here Bush gets supported for each. Its really strange IMO.

I don't care much about a politician's religious affiliations or feelings. It has no impact on my voting decision. However I think that the only people that should be allowed to be named to the Minister and Deputy Minister of defense should have a military service record. People like Bill Graham should be stuck in a ministry of inefectual foreign policy position.

[kipperfan]

Man its funny how a story can change so radically once the Republican propaganda machine takes it in, and then SPITS it back out isnt it??????

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Two words. Karl Rove. The guy is the worst kind of slime ball imaginable and is not afraid to smear anyone. His "phone poll" scams have become legendary. Its going to be interesting to see what he has up his sleeve as this race tightens. I think this is the first salvo in this battle from the USS Rove, and I think he's loaded with weapons he's dying to unleash. I pity Kerry. He's likely going to be just like Dukakis when this is all done.

[Ktulu]

A nice right wing creation based on a bad misquote. I can't remember who he said it to, during what interview, but he did not say that "he invented the internet". Al Gore stated that he chaired the committee that was responsible for the developments that turned Arpanet into the tool that we consider the internet today. He never took credit for anything other than chairing a committee overseeing developments of a communication media. The right wing whackos (I believe it was Gingrich and Limbaugh that were responsible for getting this ball rolling) twisted the quote and made something out it that it was not. The real interesting thing about this, is that Gore never stood up for himself and defended what he really said. He allowed the loud mouth right wingers to team him to shreads over a mistake that THEY made.



The exact quote was "I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

Kinda flies in the face of all the tripe you just wrote down. Gore OFTEN promoted himself as a leader in the creation of the internet. He may not have said "I invented it" but your sugar coated version is off the mark.

This is the most interesting thing about American politics that just fascinates me. The Republicans paint themselves as this holy order bent on protecting all that is good in America, and paint the Democrats as a bunch of communists bent on destroying America. The funny thing is that Republicans are an aggressive animal that will jump on a weakness and lie through their teeth to blow a small fault into a huge one. They play dirty politics and play it well. The Democrats are goodie goodies who don't have a clue how to play dirty and when they try end up shooting themselves in the foot. Both parties have some good people and some great ideas. If they could get past the partisan bullsh*t they could return America to the head of the class. As it sits both parties are responsible for America sitting in the cirner wearing a dunce hat for the world to laugh at (although the Republicans have the original dunce leading the party and responsible for much of the hate that is directed at the US). As an interested impartial observer I think the whole process is fascinating. Broken, but fascinating all the same.

An, "aggressive animal that will jump on a weakness and lie through their teeth to blow a small fault into a huge one"? Oh brother. Your ultra left-wing bias is getting really annoying. Is possible for you be objective at all?

The left plays just as dirty as the right. They slander every Republican president as an idiot, where do you think that talking point comes from? Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2 were all attacked on intellegence. Whether you strongly believe one or two of them to be idiots it is unlikely ALL were/are.

Or how about:

Leaking a 24 year old sealed DUI case days before the 2000 election?

The Democratic parties sweetheart, the NAACP tying Bush to the dragging death of James Byrd Jr?

Continually saying "Bush lied", only to be thoroughly repudiated by both British and CIA intelligence? Intelligence upon which Kerry voted to support the Iraq war.

Continually trashing Bush's Guard service?

If you lean left thats fine but get your head out of the sand. Politics is politics. One side isn't a vicious animal while the other is a bunch of saints.

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Aug 6 2004, 01:42 AM
Two words. Karl Rove. The guy is the worst kind of slime ball imaginable and is not afraid to smear anyone. His "phone poll" scams have become legendary. Its going to be interesting to see what he has up his sleeve as this race tightens. I think this is the first salvo in this battle from the USS Rove, and I think he's loaded with weapons he's dying to unleash. I pity Kerry. He's likely going to be just like Dukakis when this is all done.

What do you think about Begala and Carville Mr. Righteous. You know, the Clinton cronies who handled the "bimbo eruption" of numerous women who came forward accussing Clinton of sexual abuse or misconduct. They weren't all Paula Jones types you know but these two men made it their job to smear and discredit these women. And justice for all? These women were called trailer trash and laughed at everywhere. Linda trip was ridiculed cuz she is not very good looking and later recieved countless death threats.

Oh the left...so innocent.

[kipperfan]

The lefties and Democrats may be no Saints, but the Republican party for the most part, IS a vicoius animal, that will do anything to silence and role over anything that is not christian, and not too the far right of centre.

To the last poster, trying to compare the wonderful little story that intiated this thread, and Bush's DUI is outragous. Personally I dont car if it was sealed, citizens of a country should be able to know what their president has done, and what he is capable of.

How that, can be compared to the Republicans completly twisting this story so bad it doent even reveal the truth any longer is beyond me. John Kerry is a war hero, George Bush is a draft dodger, the Republicans arent stupid, they know how the American people see this, so they do everything in their power to slander Kerry's achievments.

Its kind of humorous that the same guy who intiated the largest American military campaign in the past 25 years is the same guy who joined the national guard to avoid the vietnam war, and then ditched the guard, went AWOL, then........ sniffed some coke.......nice president.

[Ktulu]

To the last poster, trying to compare the wonderful little story that intiated this thread, and Bush's DUI is outragous. Personally I dont car if it was sealed, citizens of a country should be able to know what their president has done, and what he is capable of.

Oh so we should have access to legally sealed documents but bringing up Kerry's actions in Vietnam is underhanded and dirty. Makes alot of sense. I mean you just said you wanted to know what the President is capable of didn't you?

Well if you are so interested in Bush being capable of drinking and driving 24 years ago than you think you might wanna know if Kerry shot a fleeing teenager.

Besides I don't care what you think is outrageous becuase I never compared the two did I? I was responding to the comments made inferring only Replubicans used dirty political tricks.

Personally I dont car if it was sealed

Yeah, who cares. Lets just throw out the rule of law while were at it.

[kipperfan]

Originally posted by Ktulu@Aug 6 2004, 02:32 AM
To the last poster, trying to compare the wonderful little story that intiated this thread, and Bush's DUI is outragous. Personally I dont car if it was sealed, citizens of a country should be able to know what their president has done, and what he is capable of.

Oh so we should have access to legally sealed documents but bringing up Kerry's actions in Vietnam are underhanded and dirty. Makes alot of sense. I mean you just said you wanted to know what the President is capable of didn't you?

Well if you are so interested in Bush being capable of drinking and driving 24 years ago than you think you might wanna know if Kerry shot a fleeing teenager.

Besides I don't care what you think is outrageous becuase I never compared the two did I? I was responding to the comments made inferring only Replubicans used dirty political tricks.

Show me anything that says he was fleeing, more like he was running up with 3 F-ing grenades ready to bomb the sh** out of the entire brigade.

Use your brains Republicans, I know CNN has tought you not to, but you can do it.

And last poster.............it isnt dirty or underhanded at all to bring Kerry's military history up, it only starts to get dirty when you change the facts, and write stories and make reports that ARE NOT substaintiated by any facts.

AND IF YOU DISAGREE, SHOW ME FACTS TO PROVE ME WRONG