Green Tories? Harper Rolls Out Environmental Policy

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

a whole bunch of junk

Look. I'm going to roll this back to one simple question, one that I asked on page one, because I clicked your link a long time ago.

Where does the information come from, and how is it accumulated? Answers like "Nasa" and "other institutes" don't count. Is it test towers? Weather patterns? I'm asking you because I want to know, and we could have ended this silly discussion long ago by you answering it.

My entire point is, that although your link and your program are probably useful tools pinpointing prospective sites, it's more than likely completely and utterly USELESS when you go into the bank looking for financing.

If I'm wrong, let me know the name of the institute that lends funds solely on the info I can gather from the program. Seriously. Our company owns a piece of land in Fort Macleod, and I'll go in this week for a loan.

Otherwise I've given up trying to ram the square peg in the round hole.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Look. I'm going to roll this back to one simple question, one that I asked on page one, because I clicked your link a long time ago.

Where does the information come from, and how is it accumulated? Answers like "Nasa" and "other institutes" don't count. Is it test towers? Weather patterns? I'm asking you because I want to know, and we could have ended this silly discussion long ago by you answering it.

My entire point is, that although your link and your program are probably useful tools pinpointing prospective sites, it's more than likely completely and utterly USELESS when you go into the bank looking for financing.

If I'm wrong, let me know the name of the institute that lends funds solely on the info I can gather from the program. Seriously. Our company owns a piece of land in Fort Macleod, and I'll go in this week for a loan.

Otherwise I've given up trying to ram the square peg in the round hole.

Fine, I'll cut and paste from the website:

This is from the NASA website:

Surface meteorology and Solar Energy (release 5.1)

A renewable energy resource web site
sponsored by NASA's Science Mission Directorate,
Earth-Sun System Division, Applied Sciences Program

• over 200 satellite-derived meteorology and solar energy parameters
• monthly averaged from 10 years of data
• data tables for a particular location
• color plots on both global and regional scales
• global solar energy data for 1195 ground sites
• data for the RETScreen® Clean Energy Project Analysis Software

From the original link:
Climate Data Locations




RETScreen is developed in collaboration with a number of other government and multilateral organisations, and with technical support from a large network of experts from industry, government and academia.

• National Aeronautics & Space Administration's (NASA)
  Langley Research Center
• United Nations Environment Programme's (UNEP) Energy Unit of the
  Division of Technology, Industry and Economics (DTIE)
• UNEP-Global Environment Facility (GEF) sponsored
  Sustainable Alternatives Network (SANet)
• Renewable Energy & Energy Efficiency Partnership (REEEP)
• World Bank's Prototype Carbon Fund (PCF)
• NRCan's Renewable Energy Deployment Initiative (REDI)
• NRCan's Refrigeration Action Program for Buildings (RAPB)
• NRCan's Photovoltaic & Hybrid Systems Program
• Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC)-NRCan
  Aboriginal and Northern Community Action Program (ANCAP)
• UNEP Risoe Centre on Energy, Climate and
  Sustainable Development (URC)
• GEF co-financed, UNEP lead Solar and
  Wind Energy Resource Assessment (SWERA) project
• NRCan's CETC-Ottawa
• NRCan's Federal Buildings Initiative (FBI)
• Federation of Canadian Municipalities (FCM)
• Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA)
• Barbados Ministry of Energy and Public Utilities (MEPU)
• United States Agency for International Development (USAID)
• Korean Institute for Energy Research (KIER)
• Technical University of Liberec (TUL)

I have no idea where you would go to get funding, but this would probably help your cause immensely.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Kaon

I suppose I would be evil for suggesting that an economically viable alternative to gas turbines and fossil fuels is nuclear. Not that, that can of worms needs to be opened.

Lets open that can of worms again.

Cheap, efficient, supplies massive amounts of power with little pollution.

Safety has been advanced over the years hopefully to avoid another Chernobyl. Not like Soviet Union 'safeguards' were really that reliable at that particular station.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Lets open that can of worms again.

Cheap, efficient, supplies massive amounts of power with little pollution.

Safety has been advanced over the years hopefully to avoid another Chernobyl. Not like Soviet Union 'safeguards' were really that reliable at that particular station.

But what about the toxic byproducts? Where is all the toxic waste that is going to be produced by meeting the world's energy needs supposed to be dumped?

I just know I wouldn't want to live near a nuclear power plant... sketchy...

What about carbon sequestration, anybody have anything to say about just harnessing a bunch of CO2 from our atmosphere and hiding it in a cave or under the ocean? I am kind of on the fence on this one.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by fotze

I think you collect the wind data yourself (like wind density yadda yadda) then input all the parameters into the software that is provided in the link to help determine viability and whatnot.

Nope, you just have to put in the co-ordinates of the location.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by fotze

Keeping the CO2 in old reservoirs is fine it is just the holes punched into the reservoirs is the weak link. There are already 10's of thousands of sites in Alberta alone where gas/fluids are injected/disposed of subsurface and it will stay there is the facilities keeping it there are designed correctly and maintained.

hmmmmm interesting, I did not know that. I guess the threat of the CO2 leaking into the atmosphere and killing the surrounding ecosystems is what concerns me.

Thanks!

[Kaon]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

hmmmmm interesting, I did not know that. I guess the threat of the CO2 leaking into the atmosphere and killing the surrounding ecosystems is what concerns me.

Thanks!

I can't imagine the costs that would be associated with harnessing the CO2 from the atmosphere, including the cost to store it, but Fotze is right, there are many resevoirs that could be used to hold the CO2 in Alberta alone. Of course because it's corrosive it does require an additional infrastructure cost, but if it could be tranferred to wellheads economically, it would be very possible to reinject it.

As for toxic sludge, I don't know, I agree that it is clean and that safety advancements would stop one of the biggest problem people have with the plants. I guess it's just figuring out which is worse, burning of fossil fuels into the atmosphere, or the storage of toxic sludge for years and years waiting for it to breakdown and safeguard as much as possible against a meltdown or contamination.

Plasma gassification is an interesting technology, but as referenced here:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ty-trash_x.htm
there are some issues with emissions not being proven to be harmless. Technology like this would be a real boon to places like,say Toronto, which has a fast apporaching garbage crisis.

Since this is a reality in Japan on a small scale, and appears that it will be a reality on a large scale in Florida over the next decade, we will likely be able to find some evidence supporting one way or the other. The nice thing is that if it is harmless, we can monitor it and implement it when the evidence shows that it is safe.

[White Doors]

Acid gas? I've had that in the morning after having gone out the night before where I drank 10 pints of draught and 2 dozen suicide chicken wings.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Nope, you just have to put in the co-ordinates of the location.

Okay, I took a minute this afternoon to have a look at your software. I'm also going to preface this by saying that I'm not going to bother responding to any of your responses, because I've wasted enough time on this. I have a ****load of work to do today.

My first impression:

• It's basically a cost analysis spreadsheet made in excel (which is what you said it was)
• You don't input "latitudes and longitudes", you use weather station locations from a drop down menu, which when selected tosses in the latitude and longitude of the station. These stations are mainly airport locations BTW. (I'll admit here I've only used the BC and Alberta locations, I haven't played around with the others.)

In otherwords, for what I'm doing, it's useless. The closest I can get to our land down south is Lethbridge, which is approximately 40km from our site. What am I going to use that info for? I can't even use it for an approximate cost value! I also see there is a field where the user can input wind speeds at your location...but wait a sec....where do those come from? Oh yeah.....a test tower on my land. If I need one of those, why would I need your software?? Clearly I don't.

I'll admit it's a neat toy, but come on. It looks to possibly be aimed at someone wishing to generate electricity for an existing load requirement, (based on the case study it opens with) and who wants to run a cost analysis on them diconnecting from the grid and self generating (hopefully they live by an airport though, because the data won't be useful if they don't). When it comes to someone like me trying to make money on an investment however, there are WAY too many variables in it to even be considered remotely useful, and I can guarantee no investor in his right mind is going to use its information. What investors want is real time wind data overlayed with real time power costs. Your spreadsheet does some of that, but only after I go out and get the data myself, more or less negating the need for your sheet.


Oh yeah, did I mention there are fields on your sheet for all 3 of my requirements I listed yesterday?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Okay, I took a minute this afternoon to have a look at your software. I'm also going to preface this by saying that I'm not going to bother responding to any of your responses, because I've wasted enough time on this. I have a ****load of work to do today.

My first impression:

• It's basically a cost analysis spreadsheet made in excel (which is what you said it was)
• You don't input "latitudes and longitudes", you use weather station locations from a drop down menu, which when selected tosses in the latitude and longitude of the station. These stations are mainly airport locations BTW. (I'll admit here I've only used the BC and Alberta locations, I haven't played around with the others.)

In otherwords, for what I'm doing, it's useless. The closest I can get to our land down south is Lethbridge, which is approximately 40km from our site. What am I going to use that info for? I can't even use it for an approximate cost value! I also see there is a field where the user can input wind speeds at your location...but wait a sec....where do those come from? Oh yeah.....a test tower on my land. If I need one of those, why would I need your software?? Clearly I don't.

I'll admit it's a neat toy, but come on. It looks to possibly be aimed at someone wishing to generate electricity for an existing load requirement, (based on the case study it opens with) and who wants to run a cost analysis on them diconnecting from the grid and self generating (hopefully they live by an airport though, because the data won't be useful if they don't). When it comes to someone like me trying to make money on an investment however, there are WAY too many variables in it to even be considered remotely useful, and I can guarantee no investor in his right mind is going to use its information. What investors want is real time wind data overlayed with real time power costs. Your spreadsheet does some of that, but only after I go out and get the data myself, more or less negating the need for your sheet.


Oh yeah, did I mention there are fields on your sheet for all 3 of my requirements I listed yesterday?

Did you happen to notice on the opening page there are pictures of a windmill, a solar panel, a refinery(?) and for some reason Husky Tower makes it in there.

In other news, that "solar community" in Okotoks is apparently nearing completion.

http://www.dlsc.ca/index.htm

Too bad the houses couldn't have been just a little "innovative" in appearance.