The Canadian Men's Soccer Team Thread

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

What a junk performance. Incredibly sloppy passes all around by Canada, their ball handling I can only describe as spastic.
Hoilett was such a disappointment but then again he has been just average at QPR anyways so expecting more than average from Jr. seems to be his benchmark.
It has become apparent year after year that it doesn't matter if the Canada men's squad is up 3, down 1, tied, down 2-1 they play the same. Their strategy doesn't change, the urgency or pace remains the same.
This probably will come across as absurd but I think that based on their superior organization and chemistry as an overall squad that the Canada Womens squad would beat them. The men's team lacks a huge amount of confidence and their level of play is dysfunctional.

Lol...not only is it absurd, it's not even close to being remotely true. I doubt the women's team would keep them within 15 goals, no embellishment. My soccer team would beat the women's team, no embellishment. Not dumping on the women's team, but it's just the truth.

[CofR]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Looks like this thread is full of big talkers who like to crap on the national team when they get an expected result. Let's be honest here, how many people were expecting a result in Honduras? I know I wasn't. I actually think this was a very good result, especially given the disaster of a game in the same spot in 2012.

You know why the national team isn't getting results in games like this? Because we are a third world country when it comes to this sport. When professional, or even semi professional clubs in this country can't make money, they can't invest in development to get better players. The general populace just simply doesn't care about the sport. Outside of MLS, people in this country will not come out to see a local club. If it's not Man U or Barcelona or Real Madrid, people will stay away.

And until that changes, results like today won't change. Put your money where your mouth is and support the game in this country, or else we can simply hit F5 in 4 years time.

I really hope that Foothills FC attendance grows next season after the great year they had. I know I plan on getting season tickets next year

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Looks like this thread is full of big talkers who like to crap on the national team when they get an expected result. Let's be honest here, how many people were expecting a result in Honduras? I know I wasn't. I actually think this was a very good result, especially given the disaster of a game in the same spot in 2012.

You know why the national team isn't getting results in games like this? Because we are a third world country when it comes to this sport. When professional, or even semi professional clubs in this country can't make money, they can't invest in development to get better players. The general populace just simply doesn't care about the sport. Outside of MLS, people in this country will not come out to see a local club. If it's not Man U or Barcelona or Real Madrid, people will stay away.

And until that changes, results like today won't change. Put your money where your mouth is and support the game in this country, or else we can simply hit F5 in 4 years time.

I don't think anyone in here expected any sort of result, let alone a win. My problem is the second half they looked like they had just accepted the defeat. There was zero intent going forward and not a whole lot of energy to their play anywhere on the pitch. That shouldn't be acceptable. If the fans and media in the country start demanding a higher standard CSA will have to step it up (or they should).

And I think Foothills is growing in popularity and they have a good thing going there. They seem to have a really competent management team.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

I don't think anyone in here expected any sort of result, let alone a win. My problem is the second half they looked like they had just accepted the defeat. There was zero intent going forward and not a whole lot of energy to their play anywhere on the pitch. That shouldn't be acceptable. If the fans and media in the country start demanding a higher standard CSA will have to step it up (or they should).

And I think Foothills is growing in popularity and they have a good thing going there. They seem to have a really competent management team.

This.

Results are disappointing, but the negative football they play is terrible and its even worse when they continue it when they are losing. It's like this cycle they just tried not to get embarrassed. Honduras game was bad but the El Salvador tactics to park the bus and give away possession, away against their scab team where they should have been gunning for 3 points, was unforgivable for me unless they made the hex.

For me the players are average but it's the management that disappoints me, because it's not like Honduras and El Salvador have better personnel.

Floro has actually been better than some of the recent bargain basement hires like Hart etc they've had, but players in the midfield with Arfield, Johnson, Hutchison, Hoilett, etc are actually pretty strong (or at least before Atiba retires). There's no reason to be playing such negative football and chasing the ball the whole game. If anything the backline is the worst part of the team, they don't even have a RB for god's sake, so playing such a defensive style and conceding possession is even more baffling. I think it would be kind to call their style in the second half counterattacking with how little they went forward and how quickly they gave the ball away.

Personnel decisions have been kinda weird, deciding to train in the USA and fly to Honduras and not expose the players to the heat until the day before the game was a really suspect decision, the nepotism of hiring his own son with no experience to be first team coach looks like a conflict of interest, lots to analyze about Floro's reign.

And also - the bottom line is, people get choked who care. The people who haven't been to games or watched and followed them aren't posting their disappointment here in the thread.

[shermanator]

The point I'm trying to get at (albeit this post is much less influenced by alcohol) is that the problem with the national team runs far beyond a coach who makes some bizarre callups, starting 11's and substitutions. Floro's contract is done after this qualifying cycle, so barring a big swing in goal differential he'll be gone next week anyways.

In a country where there is very limited money spent on the game, there will not be success in that sport until there is investment by both the big players, and the little guys who want to spend there few dollars on the sport.

Our MLS clubs are more American than Canadian. Our NASL clubs are haemorrhaging money with one having incredibly low fan support and another with not enough to break even, and neither look long for that league. No one shows up to support our USL, PDL, League1 Ontario or PLSQ clubs, which are the ones that are key to developing the 16-23 age range. Being a professional footballer is not achievable for most of those in this country with the talent, and not an attractive career path for those who happen to get noticed.

Until we as a country put our money where our mouths are and invest at both the grassroots, and professional level, nothing will change.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by shermanator

The point I'm trying to get at (albeit this post is much less influenced by alcohol) is that the problem with the national team runs far beyond a coach who makes some bizarre callups, starting 11's and substitutions. Floro's contract is done after this qualifying cycle, so barring a big swing in goal differential he'll be gone next week anyways.

In a country where there is very limited money spent on the game, there will not be success in that sport until there is investment by both the big players, and the little guys who want to spend there few dollars on the sport.

Our MLS clubs are more American than Canadian. Our NASL clubs are haemorrhaging money with one having incredibly low fan support and another with not enough to break even, and neither look long for that league. No one shows up to support our USL, PDL, League1 Ontario or PLSQ clubs, which are the ones that are key to developing the 16-23 age range. Being a professional footballer is not achievable for most of those in this country with the talent, and not an attractive career path for those who happen to get noticed.

Until we as a country put our money where our mouths are and invest at both the grassroots, and professional level, nothing will change.

Not sure I agree. Other than England nobody watches lower league football. It's about coaching and academies. The US got good well before MLS was popular. Argentina now has a 30 team first division because those teams would fold otherwise. Yes money plays a part but it's about tactics and development. We need a big name coach since we do have the parts. We're just too timid. 4-5-1 with Larin up front is an absolutely idiotic formation. Larin isnt a guy who can hold the ball yet, maybe in 4 years he'll develop that aspect of his game. We scored off of a corner but yet we refuse to take long throws or launch balls into the box. I agree with most here, the El Salvador match was what killed us, not yesterday.

While the PDL is fun, it's not the players that are going to play for Canada and the team isn't Canadian, it's under the American structure still.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Not sure I agree. Other than England nobody watches lower league football. It's about coaching and academies. The US got good well before MLS was popular. Argentina now has a 30 team first division because those teams would fold otherwise. Yes money plays a part but it's about tactics and development. We need a big name coach since we do have the parts. We're just too timid. 4-5-1 with Larin up front is an absolutely idiotic formation. Larin isnt a guy who can hold the ball yet, maybe in 4 years he'll develop that aspect of his game. We scored off of a corner but yet we refuse to take long throws or launch balls into the box. I agree with most here, the El Salvador match was what killed us, not yesterday.

While the PDL is fun, it's not the players that are going to play for Canada and the team isn't Canadian, it's under the American structure still.

A new coach doesn't solve the problem. Remember when Stephen Hart was the problem? And Dale Mitchell before him? And Frank Yallop before him? The coach is the easy fix that ignores the underlying problems.

We do not have the talent to compete in CONCACAF. Haven't for a long time.

And a youth club that develops Calgarians from U4-U23 isn't Canadian? A youth club that has produced multiple players in our current national team setup isn't Canadian? A youth club that produced the captain for our last failed cycle isn't Canadian? You couldn't be further off from the truth. They are the prototypical Canadian club who is actually putting money into develop Canadian talent.

[GirlySports]

I did not realize calgary kids were developing in the foothills system i will look into it.

We do have the talent to compete in concacaf. Were even home and away against honduras and we didnt even play well.

Those coaches you mentioned arent coaches. I want a real coach. Even a Holder Osiak level coach.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by shermanator

A new coach doesn't solve the problem. Remember when Stephen Hart was the problem? And Dale Mitchell before him? And Frank Yallop before him? The coach is the easy fix that ignores the underlying problems.

We do not have the talent to compete in CONCACAF. Haven't for a long time.

And a youth club that develops Calgarians from U4-U23 isn't Canadian? A youth club that has produced multiple players in our current national team setup isn't Canadian? A youth club that produced the captain for our last failed cycle isn't Canadian? You couldn't be further off from the truth. They are the prototypical Canadian club who is actually putting money into develop Canadian talent.

The root of the problem in Canada for soccer is the same as it is for rugby and a number of other sports. Our best athletes play hockey. We could have an amazing rugby team, soccer team or whatever else. All of these sports and any that approach an elite level demand a serious time commitment (amongst other things) from its athletes. That means kids are forced to make a decision at a relatively young age as far as which sport they want to play. I know of friends kids who are good soccer players and playing year-round 4-5 days a week at 12-13 years of age. Hockey is the same.

So yeah, coaching isn't going to fix it. Supporting the minor leagues isn't really the root issue either. Its about getting a legitimate pro-league set so that these kids have a serious option when they make the decision of whether they want to dedicate that time and effort to the program.

[MillerTime GFG]

It's a tough spot for these Canadian pro teams. There's pressure to have Canadian content, but they also need to make sure the product is good, and competitive. Foothills has all Canadian (Calgarian) content because they're good enough to play at the PDL level. As soon as you take that next step however, like the NASL, it becomes tougher to have an all-Canadian team.

Take for example, FC Edmonton. When they first started, there was a lot of local talent, as most of their players were from the AMSL. They struggled. My team actually played the FC Edmonton reserves last night, who were all 16-18 year olds (fml) from Edmonton. They were good. I couldn't help but think that unfortunately, only a couple of them will most likely get a contract with the big team. Look at the current roster for the big team, they're basically from everywhere but Canada, and you know what? They're top of the league.

That's not to say there isn't good talent here, because the grass-roots programs ARE getting better, and 16-18 year olds today are a lot better than we were at that age. There is no mandate for the Canadian clubs to have a certain amount of Canadian players, because those leagues aren't Canadian. There are no Canadian rules, like the CFL. I would like to see them take a few more local players, because I think there is some pretty good talent, but it's really a double-edged sword. Foothills FC would be no different if they were to move up to the NASL, as the pressure to put a good product on the field would be just the same.

Unfortunately, I think we're still going to need to wait another generation or two, which is what we've been saying for years obviously, but I really do think youth soccer is taking the right steps. Of course I can only speak for the local clubs, but we do have some of the best in the country, and those running these clubs are good soccer minds and are really committed to bettering Canadian soccer.

Of course, that's not even getting into the CSA, who has been poorly run for decades now. I'd like to see them get more involved with some of the grass roots programs, such as Foothills. Foothills is doing great things, show them some support. Ugh, I could go on and on...I'd just like to see a Canadian team in the WC in my lifetime.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I did not realize calgary kids were developing in the foothills system i will look into it.

We do have the talent to compete in concacaf. Were even home and away against honduras and we didnt even play well.

Those coaches you mentioned arent coaches. I want a real coach. Even a Holder Osiak level coach.

They're almost all locals that are playing in local leagues/universities.

[GirlySports]

but in the end, isn't it ontario dominated like sherminator said earlier?

[MillerTime GFG]

Yea, there has always been Ontario-bias as long as I can remember.

[MillerTime GFG]

And just to put things in perspective, Foothills FC would most likely finish middle of the pack in the AMSL, which is comprised of current and ex Uni/College players. Most of the players on Foothills are not in their prime of course, and aren't all men yet. I wasn't going to mention the score in my game last night, because I didn't want to come across as tooting my own horn, but I think it's relevant to the conversation, as we beat FC Edmonton reserves 2-0. We're almost all north of 30, and we've literally not held a single practice this whole season. Those kids train 3-4 times/week. Again, they are kids, and they will develop further, but it does kind of go to show just how drastic that next step to real professional soccer is.

[GirlySports]

Hire a star coach. Play in Whitehorse.

Done.

[Matty81]

Haha yeah they should definately be playing in more hostile places. I feel like the central american teams look forward to coming to toronto or vancouver, nice weather or indoor stadium, lots of supporters, good hotels etc.

I agree with a lot that's been said about player development and in particular the development gap between reserve/youth teams and first teams. It actually seems to me like NCAA is a better prep ground or at least as good as the reserve teams when you look at guys like Chapman, Larin and Laryea in the last couple year.

Bottom line though, it is way better today than in the 90s after the CSL folded. 3 A-League teams in the major markets was it for the whole country, no academies or decent reserve teams.

If that new CSL ever gets started there will be lots of seeds in the ground.

[GirlySports]

how/why did the CSL fold? I didn't follow back then.
I have an older brother and he and dad went to Calgary Strikers(?) games. At Mewata right?

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Slava

The root of the problem in Canada for soccer is the same as it is for rugby and a number of other sports. Our best athletes play hockey. We could have an amazing rugby team, soccer team or whatever else. All of these sports and any that approach an elite level demand a serious time commitment (amongst other things) from its athletes. That means kids are forced to make a decision at a relatively young age as far as which sport they want to play. I know of friends kids who are good soccer players and playing year-round 4-5 days a week at 12-13 years of age. Hockey is the same.

So yeah, coaching isn't going to fix it. Supporting the minor leagues isn't really the root issue either. Its about getting a legitimate pro-league set so that these kids have a serious option when they make the decision of whether they want to dedicate that time and effort to the program.

This is a good point, which I did touch on briefly. Being a pro football has to become an attractive career option to those with the talent in this country to choose to focus on soccer. That said, the biggest argument I hear against a legitimate domestic league is that people won't come out to see it because it's not the Premier League. Which kind of goes back to my earlier point about supporting local.

Originally Posted by GirlySports

but in the end, isn't it ontario dominated like sherminator said earlier?

I didn't say that? Think you may have meant browna.

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Unfortunately, I think we're still going to need to wait another generation or two, which is what we've been saying for years obviously, but I really do think youth soccer is taking the right steps. Of course I can only speak for the local clubs, but we do have some of the best in the country, and those running these clubs are good soccer minds and are really committed to bettering Canadian soccer.

Of course, that's not even getting into the CSA, who has been poorly run for decades now. I'd like to see them get more involved with some of the grass roots programs, such as Foothills. Foothills is doing great things, show them some support. Ugh, I could go on and on...I'd just like to see a Canadian team in the WC in my lifetime.

Trying not to be a homer here but IMO Foothills are the leading youth club in Western Canada (not counting the Whitecaps who will get the cream of the crop). They also seem to be the only ones willing to get dedicated facilities built. We need to clone Tommy about 50 times and spread the clones across the country.

Originally Posted by Matty81

Bottom line though, it is way better today than in the 90s after the CSL folded. 3 A-League teams in the major markets was it for the whole country, no academies or decent reserve teams.

If that new CSL ever gets started there will be lots of seeds in the ground.

I would agree, but unfortunately it's only baby steps right now. Our competition in CONCACAF are making the same leaps which is why we can never seem to catch up.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by shermanator

This is a good point, which I did touch on briefly. Being a pro football has to become an attractive career option to those with the talent in this country to choose to focus on soccer. That said, the biggest argument I hear against a legitimate domestic league is that people won't come out to see it because it's not the Premier League. Which kind of goes back to my earlier point about supporting local.



I didn't say that? Think you may have meant browna.



Trying not to be a homer here but IMO Foothills are the leading youth club in Western Canada (not counting the Whitecaps who will get the cream of the crop). They also seem to be the only ones willing to get dedicated facilities built. We need to clone Tommy about 50 times and spread the clones across the country.



I would agree, but unfortunately it's only baby steps right now. Our competition in CONCACAF are making the same leaps which is why we can never seem to catch up.

That's not being a homer at all, it's well known in the soccer community that Foothills is one of the best programs across the nation, and certainly Western Canada.

I think what it's going to take is Canada producing a generational talent or two, someone that can make a significant impact offensively. All our players are serviceable, but to compete internationally, serviceable won't cut it. We have zero offensive flair, we need to find a diamond in the rough.

[GirlySports]

I dunno. I still cant name one icelander