Kevin Allen: Five NHL teams that had the most impressive offseasons

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I agree with this, apart from the depth remark. What does Calgary's LW look like past JG? Ferland, Bouma, Shinkaruk, Mangiapane, Higgins?

There is not much there. For a guy with an NHLe of 55, it would almost be a disgrace if he couldn't outplay most of those guys. His NHLe is fairly inflated from playing on the best line in juniors, but there is definitely room for a player of his type and skill level. In fact, it's wide open.

Ferland is the best defensive winger on this roster. Tkachuk won't be unseating his role. As important as offense is, you need a guy who can bring that polished shutdown element to your top nine.

Bouma will likely play fourth line. Tkachuk won't play fourth line otherwise he will be sent down. Teams don't want prospects grinding away in a limited minutes energy role, unless they're Garnet Hathaway - grinder prospects.

Mangiapane and Tkachuk put up almost identical stats in the same league last year, except Mangiapane was a better goal scorer. Size may be an issue, but it also may not be. Both players are likely raw as two-way players though, regardless of "size". We want to send Mangiapane down to Stockton to develop his all-around game yet we are applying a double standard to Tkachuk because he is a higher draft pick. Even if Tkachuk is expected to be long term better, that doesn't mean he wouldn't benefit from developing in the minors.

And Shinkaruk is the most polished among the higher ceiling prospects. He's a third year pro who will probably come into camp as quick and strong as he has ever been. We subtracted a winger who gave us a prorated 53pts (lockout season), 54, 76, and a prorated 54 points (deadline trade) the last three seasons. If you're betting on someone in the system to fill the hole left by losing a 54+ point winger, 22 year old Shinkaruk, not 19YO Tkachuk, is your best bet short term.

I certainly don't think there is necessarily a spot just waiting for Tkachuk. He will have to prove he can outscore Jankowski, Pribyl, Shinkaruk and Mangiapane.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

While it's true Bennett plays a fairly nasty game and gets away with it while not being very big, I believe Tkachuk's game is up a level on the physical play.

I'd say they're fairly equal with their physical play and if anything, Sam seems to throw his weight around a bit more frequently crashing the net at every given opportunity. Tkachuk seems to shoot a bit more imo.

Regardless, I was only responding to the comment asking if it's crazy to wonder if Tkachuk might be more physically ready when he's 20 pounds heavier at 18 than Bennett is now. It's not a stretch at all, that's a significant size difference.

[calgaryblood]

Ferland the best defensive winger? Highly disagree. Plays with the most energy most nights but his defensive game is average at best.

[GoJetsGo]

I like Mangiapane a lot but he's going to have an uphill battle pushing for a spot this season playing the game he does at 5'10, 185lbs.

At 6'2, 205lbs Tkachuk has a big advantage going into this camp.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ferland is the best defensive winger on this roster. Tkachuk won't be unseating his role. As important as offense is, you need a guy who can bring that polished shutdown element to your top nine.

Bouma will likely play fourth line. Tkachuk won't play fourth line otherwise he will be sent down. Teams don't want prospects grinding away in a limited minutes energy role, unless they're Garnet Hathaway - grinder prospects.

Mangiapane and Tkachuk put up almost identical stats in the same league last year, except Mangiapane was a better goal scorer. Size may be an issue, but it also may not be. Both players are likely raw as two-way players though, regardless of "size". We want to send Mangiapane down to Stockton to develop his all-around game yet we are applying a double standard to Tkachuk because he is a higher draft pick. Even if Tkachuk is expected to be long term better, that doesn't mean he wouldn't benefit from developing in the minors.

And Shinkaruk is the most polished among the higher ceiling prospects. He's a third year pro who will probably come into camp as quick and strong as he has ever been. We subtracted a winger who gave us a prorated 53pts (lockout season), 54, 76, and a prorated 54 points (deadline trade) the last three seasons. If you're betting on someone in the system to fill the hole left by losing a 54+ point winger, 22 year old Shinkaruk, not 19YO Tkachuk, is your best bet short term.

I certainly don't think there is necessarily a spot just waiting for Tkachuk. He will have to prove he can outscore Jankowski, Pribyl, Shinkaruk and Mangiapane.

All very reasonable. I definitely agree with how you look at Ferland as well. It;s a shame that Jooris was let go also.

We can probably all agree that Ferland and Bouma probably aren't best suited for 2nd line minutes. I think we are all hoping that one of the kids steps up and grabs that 2LW spot so that Ferland and Bouma can play in their effective roles. Lesser players than Tkachuk have been able to play #2LW in their draft+1 season. We shouldn't forget that Tkachuk is a late birthday, he's basically a whole season of hockey older than Sam Bennett when he was drafted, so I think it would be reasonable to suggest that he could provide roughly what Bennett was able to last season.

Mangiapane and Tkachuk are a similar caliber of player for this upcoming season, so it could be AM's spot as well. Shinkaruk is supposed to have all this talent and he could potentially do it also. I see at least one of these three making the team full time, and if I had to bet I'd say it would be Shinkaruk, with Tkachuk a very close second.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

...I could see a scenario where Higgins earns a contract, and the Flames stuff all 3 of Shink, Mangiapane, and Tkachuk back into the A/O...

I don't think there is even a remote possibility of this taking place.

[GoJetsGo]

I'm still stunned Higgins got an invite. Might be the new coach thinking he still has something left in the tank. Either way, seems very unlikely he beats out some of these younger hungry guys.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I'm still stunned Higgins got an invite. Might be the new coach thinking he still has something left in the tank. Either way, seems very unlikely he beats out some of these younger hungry guys.

NHL rosters are going to be depleted of talent due to the world cup, it's not surprising that a coaches favourite here or there gets thrown a bone or two.

With inevitable injuries the team is going to need professionals around to keep drills tight etc.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ferland is the best defensive winger on this roster.

You can't be serious. I mean, based on what? Defensive positioning, takeaways, stick work??

If you are serious, that is a weird opinion to say the least considering Frolik is way better defensively.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Karl

You can't be serious. I mean, based on what? Defensive positioning, takeaways, stick work??



If you are serious, that is a weird opinion to say the least considering Frolik is way better defensively.

Plus if it's true Calgary is basically effed.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Karl

You can't be serious. I mean, based on what? Defensive positioning, takeaways, stick work??

Initiating the breakout, it's Ferland. He gets the puck on the side wall and it'll be off and away on (Monahan/Backlund/Bennett/Brodie/Gaudreau etc) stick pretty efficiently. I'm guessing Chiasson and Hathaway are up there but I cant say definitively. I can say you will always get a safe and patient clear from Ferland.

Takeaways, Ferland. That one's a pretty easy win for him. You can't really even argue that one.

Pure stick work, might be Johnny, might be Ferland. It's close.

Positioning, Ferland/Gaudreau/Brouwer/Frolik/F. Hamilton/Bouma might all be up there but I'm not sure who I would pick as they bring very different things. I do have a preference towards the more tight defensive style that Ferland and Frolik play over the more shot blocky style of Brouwer/Bouma.

Puck management, probably Ferland, maybe Frolik. Maybe Chiasson/Hathaway but again I don't really know abut those two.

If you are serious, that is a weird opinion to say the least considering Frolik is way better defensively.

I am serious, and I don't think Frolik is better defensively than Ferland. He`s better offensively however.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I am serious, and I don't think Frolik is better defensively than Ferland. He`s better offensively however.

Not that +\- is everything but I think it's telling when that if you add all of the years where Frolik was a minus player and added only the minuses it's still not as bad as Ferland's minus 15 last season alone.

Ferland to me usually runs around and doesn't cover his man properly. He definitely needs improvement in positioning and I wouldn't hesitate to say Frolik and Gaudreau are easier better than him defensively.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Not that +\- is everything but I think it's telling when that if you add all of the years where Frolik was a minus player and added only the minuses it's still not as bad as Ferland's minus 15 last season alone.

I don't think it's 'telling' at all. I'm curious if you think it's equally 'telling' about Justin Faulk, Patrick Marleau, Erik Johnson, Ryan O'Rielly, Joel Ward.

Ferland to me usually runs around and doesn't cover his man properly.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I thought Ferland "ran around" during his rookie year but not last year.

[dammage79]

Ferland was worse last season for wandering and losing his guy. Drove me nuts every single game. And his awareness was bad too. I don't onow how anyone could defend that point either seeing as his MO when he is successful is running amok and hitting everything all over the ice. He's a decent player but really plays best in an unstructured role.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Ferland is our "best" defensive winger?

LOL, Michael Frolik is better just for starters and goes up against much stiffer competition.

Someone is spending too much time looking at HERO charts.

[Coach]

Flames best defensive wingers:

Frolik
Brouwer
Gaudreau
Bouma
Ferland

I can't see how he's any better than the ones I've placed above him. I like Ferland, but yeah, no.

[FBI]

I'm one of the biggest Ferland fans here but sorry man. Frolik is a way better defensive player.
Having said that, go Ferly! 15-20 next year!