Don't usually like critiquing without putting out my own list, but I think there's some recent bias.
I love Monahan and all, but there's 0 question that 2005-2007 era Jokinen was the far better player (to date). A big 6'3'' center with skill putting up near top 10 numbers despite his closest teammates having 30 to 40 less points. Heck, the guy even got Selke votes. Whatever he may have been with the Flames several years later, there's no question that short burst with Florida puts him ahead of Monahan in my opinion. Surprised no one has him listed.
Don't usually like critiquing without putting out my own list, but I think there's some recent bias.
I love Monahan and all, but there's 0 question that 2005-2007 era Jokinen was the far better player (to date). A big 6'3'' center with skill putting up near top 10 numbers despite his closest teammates having 30 to 40 less points. Heck, the guy even got Selke votes. Whatever he may have been with the Flames several years later, there's no question that short burst with Florida puts him ahead of Monahan in my opinion. Surprised no one has him listed.
Pretty sure everyone is basing the list on performance as a Flame (except one person who put Hull in). Otherwise you get a list with Hull, St. Louis.
Pretty sure everyone is basing the list on performance as a Flame (except one person who put Hull in). Otherwise you get a list with Hull, St. Louis.
Well I'm pretty sure that was the intention of the first post given the inclusion of St. Louis on the top line and this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole436
This should be a fun exercise. You can use any player from any era that's ever played for the Flames. They didn't have to play their best years in a Flames uniform either.
There really shouldn't be any roster that doesn't include:
Iginla
Fleury
Lanny
Macinnis
The Obvious Goalies
We should argue about the others, because that's the nerdy fun part, but these guys are like the Mount Rushmore of the Flames.
The All time Flames team is stacked at RW. Nilsson, McDonald, Loob, Mullen, Makarov, Fleury, Iginla.
I remember Theo Fleury claiming that he is among the top 5 greatest players of all time. Well, I don't even think he is among the top 5 greatest Flames RW of all time. Especially if you throw Hull and St. Louis into the conversation.
FWIW, my Calgary Flames Mount Rushmore has McDonald, Iginla, Kiprusoff and Peter Maher.
Looking at the playoffs were played this year, a fast, skilled team won the cup....So looking at those players who have played with the Flames-even for a short time, though maybe not in their prime- here is my best Flames line-up I could muster up:
Don't usually like critiquing without putting out my own list, but I think there's some recent bias.
I love Monahan and all, but there's 0 question that 2005-2007 era Jokinen was the far better player (to date). A big 6'3'' center with skill putting up near top 10 numbers despite his closest teammates having 30 to 40 less points. Heck, the guy even got Selke votes. Whatever he may have been with the Flames several years later, there's no question that short burst with Florida puts him ahead of Monahan in my opinion. Surprised no one has him listed.
Monahan got Selke votes too. Thanks for coming out.
I don't understand what the attitude is for. 2005-07 Jokinen was at a level that we can only hope that Sean Monahan can be.
If we want Monahan to put up 80+ ponts, we will need the western conference to start being ####ty just like the old southeast was back then. You have to remember that teams played inside their own division for almost half the schedule in those days....and Jokinen feasted. There aren't as many easy nights for the Flames playing against the Cali teams and the central so much, so we can't expect that kind of production from Monahan. Production aside, I think Sean already provides a much more well rounded and cerebral game than Jokinen ever did.
Interesting take. I'd say that's "your" Mt. Rushmore, not mine...
My view of "Mt. Rushmore' is not necessarily just four best players, or even most valuable, but there is some subjectivity also around who was face of the franchise, beloved by fans etc.
That's why Fleury is on my list, vs. Nilsson who I agree was a better player. If Nilsson made a comeback with Flames, would Saddledome go crazy if he scores a shootout goal in preseason?
That's also why I struggled somewhat with Chopper vs. Vernon or Kipper but still went with him.
My personal favorites are probably very different - Lanny, Iginla, Loob and Kipper or Mullen. Does feel like a goalie should be up there.
If we want Monahan to put up 80+ ponts, we will need the western conference to start being ####ty just like the old southeast was back then. You have to remember that teams played inside their own division for almost half the schedule in those days....and Jokinen feasted. There aren't as many easy nights for the Flames playing against the Cali teams and the central so much, so we can't expect that kind of production from Monahan. Production aside, I think Sean already provides a much more well rounded and cerebral game than Jokinen ever did.
That's revisionist history in my opinion. Jokinen was well known as one of the best centres in the league at that time, and teams were pining over him. I don't think it's fair to say that he only got those points because he was playing the SE, especially because the Hurricane's won the cup and the Lightning were a playoff team. Would you say the same thing about St. Louis and Lecavalier? Or Iginla's 50 goals when the Oilers and Canucks #### the bed in 2008?
Monahan is a great player, but he's not even close to where Jokinen was at in his prime.
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If we want Monahan to put up 80+ ponts, we will need the western conference to start being ####ty just like the old southeast was back then. You have to remember that teams played inside their own division for almost half the schedule in those days....and Jokinen feasted. There aren't as many easy nights for the Flames playing against the Cali teams and the central so much, so we can't expect that kind of production from Monahan. Production aside, I think Sean already provides a much more well rounded and cerebral game than Jokinen ever did.
They played 32 divisional games. Jokinen would score 40 of his points against divisional rivals at his peak. Some of Iginla's best seasons he was putting up comparable numbers against some weak NW division teams, 35+ points. You're not going to asterisk Iginla's numbers, I don't see the need to do it with Jokinen's. Even if you remove his divisional points, he was still putting up over a point-per-game against the rest of the league, while often time playing with wingers who were lucky to be in the league.
Especially not when you can look at his teammates and see how little they were able to "feast" off the weak divisional opponents. Jokinen had 91 points one year, Horton had 62, Stumpel had 57. No one else beat 50. Jokinen was often playing with scrubs like Peltonen on his wing. Yet he still putting up beastly numbers. He was big, strong, skilled and dangerous. The pro-typical perfect center at the time.
Anyone arguing that Monahan, today, is better than Jokinen in 2005-2007, simply doesn't know what they are talking about. I don't use absolutes often, but they aren't comparable. And I love Monahan. I'd love for him to close the gap, which I think he will do, but right now that gap is huge.
Last edited by Oling_Roachinen; 09-01-2016 at 01:42 PM.
