You guys are turning German drivers into some mythical driving ubermachines, in reality, Europeans just have more education and training for pretty much everything you do. You used to need to have a license to a ride a bike or go swimming as a kid (license is the wrong word but it was a card and course). Do you think that made Poland some biking and swimming utopia? It's just how things are over there. I promise you, they don't spend more than a couple minutes on "Keep Right Except To Pass". Does it take any more than a few minutes to cover this:
"If you are passing you are allowed to use the left lane. If you are not passing then don't be in that lane. If you want to pass, take a look to make sure there isn't someone coming up that will pass a lot quicker than you. Passing on the right is illegal."
That's all there is to it. There is nothing in that sentence that is left for interpretation.
This thread is making me seem like I rage up and down deerfoot on a daily basis, which I don't. I lost the will to try and weave around traffic or get mad at people a long time ago. I drive from one end of the city to the other, daily, it has numbed me to stupidity of the people on the roads.
It's seeing the responses in this thread. That's what's driving me nuts. It's basically everything wrong with what we see on the road summed up in one thread and the worst part is, it's from otherwise smart posters. I just can't understand how this is a debate of some sort. There's nothing to explain, there are no caveats to "Keep Right Except To Pass".
And it is your oversimplification of something far more complicated than that - that is driving others crazy.
Please elaborate what about those 5 words is so hard to understand?
Where is the disconnect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by topfiverecords
Volume of traffic combined with bad drivers. I just drove this stretch on Saturday and it was bumper to bumper.
When the traffic has very few gaps you get a line of 10 cars in the left lane who want to at least do the speed limit, but are stuck behind some struggler somewhere up ahead. The right lane is bumper to bumper semi trailers, campers and tourists doing 100km in the 110km. This is when you get the raging lunitic coming up behind you, flashing his lights and weaving because he thinks the 10 cars ahead of him are just being ignorant and are choosing to drive 105km in the 110km.
This is where I'm not moving over. None of the cars 2-9 have moved over for the guy behind them, because we all want to go 20+ km faster. Wait your spot in the group until the struggler clears and we can all speed up and start moving over at the appropriate speeds and time.
It's topfive's scenario where there is a disconnect. It isn't always possible to move to the right when it is wall-to-wall traffic on the QEII or Highway 1 west of town. I think that is the situation that Jiri and Cliff and others complain about. Dude is coming up too fast for the situation and then continuing to drive too close to the next car. Happens far too often.
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Alright, here's my beef with left lane/right lane.
On the QE2 or a normal highway, I enjoy a well-mannered left/right highway as much as anyone. But many drivers - especially the young, aggressive types - seem to believe left lane/right lane applies to every road in the city as well.
No, if I'm in the left lane on 16th avenue with its gazillion stoplights, you shouldn't be riding people's ass trying to get by the same way as on a highway. Just stop.
What about Deerfoot or Crowchild? Is this a right lane/left lane place if you don't want to be stuck behind traffic in the slow lanes, but it is hard to move over for the guys who want to go 140?
It's topfive's scenario where there is a disconnect. It isn't always possible to move to the right when it is wall-to-wall traffic on the QEII or Highway 1 west of town. I think that is the situation that Jiri and Cliff and others complain about.
Yep, that's really irritating. But I think it's a wholly different scenario than what Enoch & co are talking about. Not just different behaviour. If there's heavy traffic, then both lanes are generally going to be full and you're basically just going speed of traffic. Not much else you can do, so not much to argue about. Guys tailgating in that situation (or any other) because they want to go faster are jerks and idiots. So that's the scenario you and Jiri and Cliff may be thinking about.
What I think Enoch is talking about is people getting out of your way rather than sitting there and giving you the choice of passing them on the right or hanging out behind them for who knows how long. That obviously implies it's at least possible to pass someone on the right - which means it's not super congested. Different situation altogether.
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Alright, here's my beef with left lane/right lane.
On the QE2 or a normal highway, I enjoy a well-mannered left/right highway as much as anyone. But many drivers - especially the young, aggressive types - seem to believe left lane/right lane applies to every road in the city as well.
No, if I'm in the left lane on 16th avenue with its gazillion stoplights, you shouldn't be riding people's ass trying to get by the same way as on a highway. Just stop.
What about Deerfoot or Crowchild? Is this a right lane/left lane place if you don't want to be stuck behind traffic in the slow lanes, but it is hard to move over for the guys who want to go 140?
So many questions.
Deerfoot should be as it's considered a Provincial highway and Right Lane Except to Pass rules should apply. Crowchild north of 24th ave or south of Bow Trail, it's more courtesy.
Last time I was towing my trailer I almost wiped a guy out. I was cruising at 110 on the double lane, passing a semi, and mister 130 comes up on my ass. I carry on passed the semi, and just as I start lane changing Mr 130 decides to cut the semi off and pass me on the right. I in turn have to swerve back in the left lane with my car trailer, or there's gonna be a lot of metal bent.
This guy can go eff himself, the semi going 100 is doing nothing wrong, I'm not doing anything wrong, his aggresion is the only thing dangerous in this situation.
Put your right signal on as soon as you clear the semi(or just before) and dooshbag should get the idea. Sure, you may have your signal flashing for longer than usual but I've found this stops the undercut.
Tangentially related...people who signal after they've started changing lanes. No need to signal now, a**hole! I can see you are moving!
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Yep, that's really irritating. But I think it's a wholly different scenario than what Enoch & co are talking about. Not just different behaviour. If there's heavy traffic, then both lanes are generally going to be full and you're basically just going speed of traffic. Not much else you can do, so not much to argue about. Guys tailgating in that situation (or any other) because they want to go faster are jerks and idiots. So that's the scenario you and Jiri and Cliff may be thinking about.
What I think Enoch is talking about is people getting out of your way rather than sitting there and giving you the choice of passing them on the right or hanging out behind them for who knows how long. That obviously implies it's at least possible to pass someone on the right - which means it's not super congested. Different situation altogether.
Yes, different situations. But I'm curious about what world people live in where B is more common than A. I may come across someone driving slowly in the left lane when there's no traffic in the right lane once every 4 or 5 hours of highway driving. During that time, I'll encounter A three or four times.
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Originally Posted by fotze
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Yep, that's really irritating. But I think it's a wholly different scenario than what Enoch & co are talking about. Not just different behaviour. If there's heavy traffic, then both lanes are generally going to be full and you're basically just going speed of traffic. Not much else you can do, so not much to argue about. Guys tailgating in that situation (or any other) because they want to go faster are jerks and idiots. So that's the scenario you and Jiri and Cliff may be thinking about.
What I think Enoch is talking about is people getting out of your way rather than sitting there and giving you the choice of passing them on the right or hanging out behind them for who knows how long. That obviously implies it's at least possible to pass someone on the right - which means it's not super congested. Different situation altogether.
That is fair; different situations for sure. For your scenario, I think the disconnect applies as to what "stuck behind" really means. Cliff literally spoke to 30 seconds in the left lane, and some jumped all over as it being a struggle situation. If someone is going 140 down to 115 for 30 seconds, I have no sympathy, assuming the 115 guy didn't blatantly cut him off.
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From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
That is fair; different situations for sure. For your scenario, I think the disconnect applies as to what "stuck behind" really means. Cliff literally spoke to 30 seconds in the left lane, and some jumped all over as it being a struggle situation. If someone is going 140 down to 115 for 30 seconds, I have no sympathy, assuming the 115 guy didn't blatantly cut him off.
It's still context dependent, going from 140 down to 115 for 30 seconds is fine if there's a good reason for the guy to be there for 30 seconds. If he's like speede5, towing a trailer and trying to pass a semi (or two), then absolutely, but presumably once he's made that pass he's getting back in the right lane. If the guy is just sitting there in the left lane driving 115 with no one else really around and seemingly oblivious to the fact that there's someone behind him who wants to drive past him, that's the issue.
Cliff, I don't drive much at peak traffic times, but my experience is the opposite - "guy obliviously sitting in left lane on non-busy highway acting as if both lanes are functionally equal until you pass him on the right" is far more commonly observed than "maniac trying to tailgate everyone to gain a few car lengths when road is congested". Might depend heavily on where people ordinarily drive.
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Based off this thread I would be shocked if Polak hasn't already been involved in a road rage incident. If he hasn't he almost certainly will someday. If this is how angry he gets discussing the issue, I cannot imagine how angry he gets when the issue actually occurs.
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Based off this thread I would be shocked if Polak hasn't already been involved in a road rage incident. If he hasn't he almost certainly will someday. If this is how angry he gets discussing the issue, I cannot imagine how angry he gets when the issue actually occurs.
Utter nonsense. Polak is a perfectly safe driver. I pulled this video from his Facebook just to demonstrate.
I think we can all agree that there's nothing remotely dangerous or irresponsible going on there. Well, aside from all the strugglers he's passing. Godspeed, Polak. Good on you, sir.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Utter nonsense. Polak is a perfectly safe driver. I pulled this video from his Facebook just to demonstrate.
I think we can all agree that there's nothing remotely dangerous or irresponsible going on there. Well, aside from all the strugglers he's passing. Godspeed, Polak. Good on you, sir.
That reminds you, you need to get your Z in for an oil change.
I think the issue of when to switch back to the right lane could use some expansion. I try to get back right away after passing, but I do notice that if you don't leave another car gap inbetween, you are making people potentially start having to pass multiple cars, especially when you have a limited amount of space for some of the passing lanes along HWY 1. I am not really sure what the best approach is when the speed differential isn't huge between yourself and the car you're passing.
Based off this thread I would be shocked if Polak hasn't already been involved in a road rage incident. If he hasn't he almost certainly will someday. If this is how angry he gets discussing the issue, I cannot imagine how angry he gets when the issue actually occurs.
Unlike some people, I understand that there is a difference between venting on a message board and putting people in danger on the road.
Like I said, driving on deerfoot from one end of the city to the other, twice a day, has numbed me. I'm not going to win so I don't try.
Coming on here and seeing these posts coming from the people who are the cause of the problem, that's rage inducing. It's absolutely staggering.
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Because you claim that "Keep Right Except to Pass" is "oversimplifying" it. Any response besides "yeah that is the perfect system, it works flawlessly and is completely black and white" is proof that you are part of the problem.
