The Left Lane/Right Lane Thunderdome Thread

[Bunk]

Ugh, self-driving cars cannot come fast enough. Humans are terrible at this.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not to derail, but I find that when people are changing speeds a fair bit, it is often because they are distracted - whether it be conversation, texting or whatever.

The times I looked over she was chatting and laughing with her friend(except after I blasted her with the horn) without a care in the world. Driving like a normal person was pretty low on her list of cares.

I have no problem telling my passenger(usually my wife) to stop talking if traffic gets dicey and I need to give it my full attention.

[polak]

So I was thinking about this thread while driving in this morning on Deerfoot and counted 4 times where I got stuck behind someone going slower than me in the left lane (I was going 120 as usual) and wouldn't move when they had the opportunity. I also counted 1 time where I saw someone cut off someone that was going to pass at much higher speed to pass themselves.

I counted 0 maniacs doing 140 and riding everyones ass, weaving through traffic.

I'll keep this going. I think it will become quite evident what the bigger issue is.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by polak

So I was thinking about this thread while driving in this morning on Deerfoot and counted 4 times where I got stuck behind someone going slower than me in the left lane (I was going 120 as usual) and wouldn't move when they had the opportunity. I also counted 1 time where I saw someone cut off someone that was going to pass at much higher speed to pass themselves.

I counted 0 maniacs doing 140 and riding everyones ass, weaving through traffic.

I'll keep this going. I think it will become quite evident what the bigger issue is.

I think this is indeed more common in Deerfoot - where people don't tend to apply the same approach that they do on the highway. I admit that is a problem.
But when you say someone was trying to pass "at a much higher speed" that is part of the problem. Anyone going over 120/125 on the Deerfoot is going faster than they need to.
No chance that your views on thing are just as biased as everyone elses eh?

[topfiverecords]

Man, I hate when people are eating yogurt while hogging the left lane of the escalator.

[polak]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It's just crazy to think that different people with different training in different situations driving on different roads can't be like... totally the same. WHY?

Why? Why does it have to be different. It's pretty much exactly the same rules of the road, exactly the same type of road, exactly the same cars and exactly the same levels of traffic. Tourists drive there all the time yet you don't hear about it becoming some tourist death trap where every Canadian shows up and causes some massive accident?

Yes, licensing is more strict there but I don't think that's the major contributor here. The US has the same lax standards as we do yet they have better highway drivers too. The issue in my opinion is the attitude. Every single person on the Autobahn, local or tourist, knows that you need to be looking for Ferrari's coming up on you in the left lane at 220 so everyone is constantly aware. Everyone knows what the rules are and more importantly, they ENFORCE IT.

In Canada we all just shrug it off. You can see the attitudes in this thread. "Ahh, well you know, I don't see what the big deal is", "Speeders just need to calm down", "How much time are you really saving".

There is your issue. Crack down on it. Have a week where you patrol deerfoot and pull left lane strugglers over and give them warnings, put in the paper and on the news, tweet about it and use it as a guerrilla drivers education event and change this attitude of lazy, stupid driving.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think this is indeed more common in Deerfoot - where people don't tend to apply the same approach that they do on the highway. I admit that is a problem.
But when you say someone was trying to pass "at a much higher speed" that is part of the problem. Anyone going over 120/125 on the Deerfoot is going faster than they need to.
No chance that your views on thing are just as biased as everyone elses eh?

Case in point.

We have a perfect system that is internationally renowned and deployed around the globe. Keep Right Except To Pass. It literally solves the issue regarding differences of speed on the highway yet here we are, "Well, man, why do you have to go so fast? Chill"....

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think this is indeed more common in Deerfoot - where people don't tend to apply the same approach that they do on the highway. I admit that is a problem.
But when you say someone was trying to pass "at a much higher speed" that is part of the problem. Anyone going over 120/125 on the Deerfoot is going faster than they need to.
No chance that your views on thing are just as biased as everyone elses eh?

Depends on the part of Deerfoot, really. North of the Airport, if you aren't doing 120 you're an obstacle. Same south of Anderson where it seems to open up and there's less exits, 120 is the norm for sure.

I agree though, with the amount of exits on Deerfoot different rules seem to apply than other highways.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think this is indeed more common in Deerfoot - where people don't tend to apply the same approach that they do on the highway. I admit that is a problem.
But when you say someone was trying to pass "at a much higher speed" that is part of the problem. Anyone going over 120/125 on the Deerfoot is going faster than they need to.
No chance that your views on thing are just as biased as everyone elses eh?

IMO, this is the fundamental problem...

Do some people drive too fast? Yes, of course. But that will always be the case.

More importantly though, it isn't up to you or me or anyone else to decide what is too fast. That's up to the police.

And that is where things break down: people think "they are going too fast, so screw them". Why? It's not up to you. Just stay to the right and they will go away.

And the faster they are going, the faster they will be out of your hair.

However, if you decide that speed control is up to you, then things are going to break down and you're going to find yourself in situations of stress and conflict.

And here's the thing: yes, the other person is driving too fast, which is dangerous, but if you decide to not be considerate, you make things worse. Much worse. And not just for the speeder, but for you too! It doesn't matter if they're being a dbag, just let them go and they won't be your problem.

This is why I can't understand the logic of anyone that doesn't want to stay to the right: by involving yourself, you are putting your own safety at risk.

If everyone stays to the right and is considerate of those around them, in front of them, and behind them, then everyone is safer.

And the cops can deal with the people going too fast (or too slow, or recklessly, or whatever).

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by polak

There is your issue. Crack down on it. Have a week where you patrol deerfoot and pull left lane strugglers over and give them warnings, put in the paper and on the news, tweet about it and use it as guerrilla drivers education event and change this attitude of lazy, stupid driving.

Then wouldn't you get a ticket too, going 120 on Deerfoot?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Then wouldn't you get a ticket too, going 120 on Deerfoot?

That's the issue. The guy speeding and the guy hogging the left lane are both causing problems, but the police only enforce one of those problems (and over enforce it imo)

[Zarley]

I don't understand why this is even a debate regarding this. If you are in the left lane and there is a wide open space on your right, you are a poor driver. The relative speed of anyone else on the road has nothing to do with it.

Also, Highway 1 west between Calgary and Banff seems to be the worst place for this in Canada. I'm not sure if it's city folk who don't know how to drive on the highway heading to the mountains or tourists in rental cars clogging the road, but man that is a frustrating stretch of road.

[woob]

I like to think of myself as a courteous driver. I usually cruise at about 125 or slower, stick to the right lane, and am always watching my mirrors. (honestly, I think that's a lot of the problem as well; some people are oblivious, and much like they have no sense of situational awareness when they walk on the plus 15 and decide to stop in a front of a doorway to talk, they have no awareness of what's going on around them when they drive)

I drive back from the mountains many times during the summer. Typically, I encounter 8-10 instances of tailgating by someone doing 140 while I am passing on my drives home (this is from the highway 93 merge on to TransCanada back to Calgary). It doesn't seem to happen as much on the trip out I find, mostly just coming home.

On the flip side, I usually encounter 3-4 instances of a left lane donkey that actually causes me to pass on the right. When doing this, I typically sit a safe distance behind them and give them the opportunity to prove they're not a buffoon and then if after 2-3 minutes they don't move, I pass on the right and honk at them as I am doing so.

As many before me have stated in this thread, if people were simply more courteous to other drivers, there'd be a lot less rage on this topic. Additionally, people need to go back to basics; watch your mirrors, signal to INDICATE you want to change lanes and change when safe to do so, shoulder check and don't just rely on your mirrors, and give yourself plenty of room between you and the car in front. ESPECIALLY on a highway @ 120km/h. Of course, the only bad thing about leaving distance on a busy highway, is people often use that as their opportunity to change lanes, since they have no idea what is a safe distance to leave between themselves and the car in front.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by polak

Why? Why does it have to be different. It's pretty much exactly the same rules of the road, exactly the same type of road, exactly the same cars and exactly the same levels of traffic. Tourists drive there all the time yet you don't hear about it becoming some tourist death trap where every Canadian shows up and causes some massive accident?

Yes, licensing is more strict there but I don't think that's the major contributor here. The US has the same lax standards as we do yet they have better highway drivers too. The issue in my opinion is the attitude. Every single person on the Autobahn, local or tourist, knows that you need to be looking for Ferrari's coming up on you in the left lane at 220 so everyone is constantly aware. Everyone knows what the rules are and more importantly, they ENFORCE IT.

In Canada we all just shrug it off. You can see the attitudes in this thread. "Ahh, well you know, I don't see what the big deal is", "Speeders just need to calm down", "How much time are you really saving".

There is your issue. Crack down on it. Have a week where you patrol deerfoot and pull left lane strugglers over and give them warnings, put in the paper and on the news, tweet about it and use it as a guerrilla drivers education event and change this attitude of lazy, stupid driving.



Case in point.

We have a perfect system that is internationally renowned and deployed around the globe. Keep Right Except To Pass. It literally solves the issue regarding differences of speed on the highway yet here we are, "Well, man, why do you have to go so fast? Chill"....

Ok but that's not the system HERE.
So it is irrelevant.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by polak

Why? Why does it have to be different. It's pretty much exactly the same rules of the road, exactly the same type of road, exactly the same cars and exactly the same levels of traffic. Tourists drive there all the time yet you don't hear about it becoming some tourist death trap where every Canadian shows up causes some massive accident?

Yes, licensing is more strict there but I don't think that's the major contributor here. The US has the same lax standards as we do yet they have better highway drivers too. The issue in my opinion is the attitude. Every single person on the Autobahn, local or tourist, knows that you need to be looking for Ferrari's coming up on you in the left lane at 220 so everyone is constantly aware. Everyone knows what the rules are and more importantly, they ENFORCE IT.

In Canada we all just shrug it off. You can see the attitudes in this thread. "Ahh, well you know, I don't see what the big deal is", "Speeders just need to calm down", "How much time are you really saving".

There is your issue. Crack down on it. Have a week where you patrol deerfoot and pull left lane strugglers over and give them warnings, put in the paper and on the news, tweet about it and use it as guerrilla drivers education event and change this attitude of lazy, stupid driving.



Case in point.

We have a perfect system that is internationally renowned and deployed around the globe. Keep Right Except To Pass. It literally solves the issue regarding differences of speed on the highway yet here we are, "Well, man, why do you have to go so fast? Chill"....

I have to admit, it makes me nervous to agree with polak, but this is pretty much it.

IMO, the left lane problem is more prevalent in Canada than anywhere else I have driven (which is every continent except SA), and specifically, it is worse in western Canada.

And as polak says, a large part of the problem is the attitude that people think the other guy is going too fast so screw them.

Some people will drive fast. Some people will drive poorly.

Just let them pass and they aren't your problem.

Everyone following a system that enhances overall safety is a hell of a lot better, IMO, than individuals having pissing contests at over 100 kmph because they don't like how the other person is driving.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

IMO, this is the fundamental problem...

Do some people drive too fast? Yes, of course. But that will always be the case.

More importantly though, it isn't up to you or me or anyone else to decide what is too fast. That's up to the police.

No one needs to decide what is too fast - there are signs that actually outline the speed that is permitted. If you choose to go over that, you are choosing to ignore those stated guidelines
You seem to think that everyone should adjust their behavior to meet the needs of those precious few who think they are above the law and established driving guidelines.
And to be clear, because you seem to be ignoring this point, I don't hog up the left lane. I use it to pass, and otherwise cruise in the right.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No one needs to decide what is too fast - there are signs that actually outline the speed that is permitted. If you choose to go over that, you are choosing to ignore those stated guidelines
You seem to think that everyone should adjust their behavior to meet the needs of those precious few who think they are above the law and established driving guidelines.

But no one actually drives the speed limit anywhere. It's already treated as a loose guideline. You can be ticketed for impeding traffic if you drive the speed limit. Once that's acknowledged, it simply becomes a question of how much you can exceed the posted limit and still be behaving reasonably and not recklessly.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Ok but that's not the system HERE.
So it is irrelevant.

True, but I thought we were all talking about whether it should be the system here.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by polak

Why? Why does it have to be different. It's pretty much exactly the same rules of the road, exactly the same type of road, exactly the same cars and exactly the same levels of traffic. Tourists drive there all the time yet you don't hear about it becoming some tourist death trap where every Canadian shows up and causes some massive accident?

Yes, licensing is more strict there but I don't think that's the major contributor here. The US has the same lax standards as we do yet they have better highway drivers too. The issue in my opinion is the attitude. Every single person on the Autobahn, local or tourist, knows that you need to be looking for Ferrari's coming up on you in the left lane at 220 so everyone is constantly aware. Everyone knows what the rules are and more importantly, they ENFORCE IT.

In Canada we all just shrug it off. You can see the attitudes in this thread. "Ahh, well you know, I don't see what the big deal is", "Speeders just need to calm down", "How much time are you really saving".

There is your issue. Crack down on it. Have a week where you patrol deerfoot and pull left lane strugglers over and give them warnings, put in the paper and on the news, tweet about it and use it as a guerrilla drivers education event and change this attitude of lazy, stupid driving.



Case in point.

We have a perfect system that is internationally renowned and deployed around the globe. Keep Right Except To Pass. It literally solves the issue regarding differences of speed on the highway yet here we are, "Well, man, why do you have to go so fast? Chill"....

I understand your preference to fetishise Europe, but it just doesn't matter.

Sorry, but you don't need to worry about a Ferrari coming up on you at 220 here, so nobody is looking for that.

You're very confused between what the rules actually are and what you think they should be. Everyone knows what the rules are, not everyone knows what you think you should be.

Based on your description of how driving ought to be in Calgary, it appears you're one of those drivers with an irresponsible attitude.

"The problem is that in Europe, everyone knows the standard! So here, when I'm driving expecting it to be like Europe and not like Calgary, everyone is CONFUSED!"

No kidding.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Ok but that's not the system HERE.
So it is irrelevant.

What?

From the Alberta driver's handbook:

Passing on a multi-lane highway
On a multi-lane highway, slower traffic should use the travel lane furthest to the right (unless needing the left lane to turn left). This leaves the left lane available for drivers of other vehicles for passing.

It's a very simple rule to follow.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

But no one actually drives the speed limit anywhere. It's already treated as a loose guideline. You can be ticketed for impeding traffic if you drive the speed limit. Once that's acknowledged, it simply becomes a question of how much you can exceed the posted limit and still be behaving reasonably and not recklessly.

True, but I thought we were all talking about whether it should be the system here.

Different discussion then - and would require a complete overhaul of licensing, training and driver behavior.
I don't know if that is something that is practical.

[polak]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I understand your preference to fetishise Europe, but it just doesn't matter.

Sorry, but you don't need to worry about a Ferrari coming up on you at 220 here, so nobody is looking for that.

You're very confused between what the rules actually are and what you think they should be. Everyone knows what the rules are, not everyone knows what you think you should be.

Based on your description of how driving ought to be in Calgary, it appears you're one of those drivers with an irresponsible attitude.

"The problem is that in Europe, everyone knows the standard! So here, when I'm driving expecting it to be like Europe and not like Calgary, everyone is CONFUSED!"

No kidding.

What are you talking about? They drive exactly the same as everyone here. They just know to move over.... crazy...