Alberta Politics Thread

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because Prentice called a snap election in a bid to take advantage of an unprepared opponent after Wildrose's leaders betrayed the party and left it drifting. I can't say whether Jean would have fared better if Prentice had waited six months for the call, but I can say that at no point in Jim's wildest dreams did he ever think the NDP would be a threat. His arrogance should not be forgotten as a major contributing factor this mess we currently 'enjoy'.

Well no one predicted that outcome and if someone had posted it here we would've ridiculed them as dreaming. Prentice was in the business of winning elections, and I think an advisor would've told him it was a great time to cement his government with the opposition in shambles.

It's easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight and say it was a poor choice. I never would've predicted that things went that way though. I thought Prentice would win 70+ seats, and even in the event of a loss wouldn't have thought the NDP would win.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

If you're a member of the AUPE you're actually getting a raise, nevermind a theoretical pay cut though. It just feels wrong to me given the state the economy is in. Remember, they are borrowing money and leveraging more debt to do this. It's almost half of their budget man.

Personally I don't believe the NDP will discuss cuts until everyone eventually works for them. Raises for everyone!

Fire away?

Let's do a little fact checking..

The direct government jobs represented by the AUPE were given a new contract by Hancock in 2014 and raises then, they are not due for more raises until 2018 so lets clarify it's not ALL of AUPE.

Second, yes there are raises coming to AHS support workers who have been without contract since 2014. After being unable to come to an agreement with the PC or the NDP government they went to an independent arbitrator who gave them a 5% raise effective 2014.

Third, there is a wage freeze for government management in effect right now and AUPE is anticipating the government will negotiate from a position of wage freeze for all direct employees next year when the current contract expires.

So no the NDP are not giving out raises to AUPE.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

If you're a member of the AUPE you're actually getting a raise, nevermind a theoretical pay cut though. It just feels wrong to me given the state the economy is in. Remember, they are borrowing money and leveraging more debt to do this. It's almost half of their budget man.

Personally I don't believe the NDP will discuss cuts until everyone eventually works for them. Raises for everyone!

Fire away?

Plenty of private sector people who still have jobs got raises and bonuses this year. Really though union wages should be pegged at 2% forever and call it a day.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because Prentice called a snap election in a bid to take advantage of an unprepared opponent after Wildrose's leaders betrayed the party and left it drifting. I can't say whether Jean would have fared better if Prentice had waited six months for the call, but I can say that at no point in Jim's wildest dreams did he ever think the NDP would be a threat. His arrogance should not be forgotten as a major contributing factor this mess we currently 'enjoy'.

Wildrose leaders didn't betray the party, the members decided to be bigoted idiots instead so their leadership left.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Kerplunk

Ya, the outrage over Bill 6 was more directed over how it was implemented, not why it was implemented. Poor consultation, poor communication, and the attitude of "implement it now and fix up the details later" is what had people stoked up about it. If the NDP had done more detailed work and had better communication up front, there would haven't have been the same response. But, in what seems to be the running theme for them, they took the "shove it down everyone's throats" approach to implementing the legislation.

I think we need to lower peoples expectations on public consultations. In general it doesn't work. A public consultation shouldn't be thought of as the publics opportunity to kill what is required. It is an opportunity to validate the assumptions made in crafting whatever it was.

Be it pipelines, bus lanes or OHS bills.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well no one predicted that outcome and if someone had posted it here we would've ridiculed them as dreaming. Prentice was in the business of winning elections, and I think an advisor would've told him it was a great time to cement his government with the opposition in shambles.

It's easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight and say it was a poor choice. I never would've predicted that things went that way though. I thought Prentice would win 70+ seats, and even in the event of a loss wouldn't have thought the NDP would win.

I think even at the time, it was viewed as a poor choice - though not in the same way. Everyone knew that Prentice's early call was a cynical effort to take advantage of the mess he left Wildrose in. And even at the time, he should have had no expectation of a slam dunk. Polls conducted on April 7 - the day of the election call - showed that the PCs immediately dropped several points from just two weeks earlier, and that the election was going to be a three way battle.


Though, looking at the numbers from the election, it should be noted that Notley's gains from the April 7 call to the May 5 election were entirely made up of the Liberal party's collapse. That is something the PCs should be mindful of if they choose to go with Kenney as leader.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I think even at the time, it was viewed as a poor choice - though not in the same way. Everyone knew that Prentice's early call was a cynical effort to take advantage of the mess he left Wildrose in. And even at the time, he should have had no expectation of a slam dunk. Polls conducted on April 7 - the day of the election call - showed that the PCs immediately dropped several points from just two weeks earlier, and that the election was going to be a three way battle.


Though, looking at the numbers from the election, it should be noted that Notley's gains from the April 7 call to the May 5 election were entirely made up of the Liberal party's collapse. That is something the PCs should be mindful of if they choose to go with Kenney as leader.

Sure there were cracks in the armour so to speak, but really who credibly predicted that outcome? I would say no one did aside from some wishful thinking. That's painfully evident with the qualifications that we see for government members today. If it was anywhere near obvious then credible candidates would've stepped forward to win those nominations.

It's the old line that in a democracy we get the government we deserve.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I'm a fan of the NDP. I think their hearts are in the right place.

Well I'm glad to hear their hearts are in the right place. As long as they try really hard and have fun out there, I'm sure things will be just peachy!

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

The wildrose didnt have to whip farmers into a frenzy. The NDP did that just fine all on their own.

"Eager to weaponize legitimate grievances in its war against the NDP, the Wildrose have crowned themselves defenders of the faith for their largely rural constituents. Last weekend alone, they hosted more than a thousand Albertans at seven different town hall meetings about Bill 6, including one where Wildrose MLA and human temper-tantrum Derek Fildebrandt got to sit back and watch 500 angry farmers yell at Agriculture Minister Oneil Cartier. Presumably, they can only hope that no one remembers Wildrose Leader Brian Jean going on record last spring in support of extending WCB coverage to farm workers. You know—the substantive content of Bill 6. Maybe they're hoping farmers don't know how to use Google."

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/alber...f-horse-manure

[nik-]

vice

[Resolute 14]

lol, vice. You didn't have a Vancouver Observer link handy?

Wildrose certainly took advantage of the anger of the farmers, but the farmers were already going hard at Notley beforehand.

[Tacopuck]

Yeah most of Vice is sensationalist garbage, but hey whatever gets you clicks right?

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

lol, vice. You didn't have a Vancouver Observer link handy?

Wildrose certainly took advantage of the anger of the farmers, but the farmers were already going hard at Notley beforehand.

The comments around the use of a link from vice.com are fair enough. I feel the same way when people I know share stuff from Rebel Media. However, I don't understand why some whine about my use of "sensationalism" but are willing to give WRP members/supporters a free pass.

This anger didn't start with Bill 6. It started the second the NDP won the election. The WRP didn't strike the match, but they certainly threw gasoline into the flickering flames.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its pretty rare that The Rebel or Ezra are used as sources here because its instantly recognized for what it is, hysterical propaganda.

The Anger literally did start with Bill 6, the NDP had higher then average popularity and then started pissing it away with Bill 6 in how they dealt with the farmers.

And of course Wild Rose threw a match on it, its no different then the NDP throwing the match on any budget cut or any union/government interaction when the Conservatives were running the place.

[the_only_turek_fan]

http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=9a5d-4ad2

Layoffs in their previously high-demand professions started when oil prices collapsed nearly two years ago as a result of Saudi Arabia’s war for market share. Headcounts continued to shrink as the downturn dragged on longer than anyone imagined. Now the job killers are homegrown: uncertainty from environmental policies by governments in Edmonton and Ottawa, a continuing lack of pipeline capacity, the failure of even a single liquefied natural gas project to get the go-ahead, higher taxes and new costly regulations.

“There is a real human tragedy here,” said Dan Allan, president of the Canadian Society for Unconventional Resources, who estimated there are 40,000 to 60,000 energy professionals out of work in Alberta based on feedback from his membership, which straddles all disciplines — geoscientists, engineers, finance and business specialists.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Well I'm glad to hear their hearts are in the right place. As long as they try really hard and have fun out there, I'm sure things will be just peachy!

That's totally what I meant....

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Howie_16

The comments around the use of a link from vice.com are fair enough. I feel the same way when people I know share stuff from Rebel Media. However, I don't understand why some whine about my use of "sensationalism" but are willing to give WRP members/supporters a free pass.

Well personally, I'd criticize someone who posted Rebel Media just the same.

This anger didn't start with Bill 6. It started the second the NDP won the election. The WRP didn't strike the match, but they certainly threw gasoline into the flickering flames.

This I am more willing to agree with.

And yes, many people were going to be upset that people elected a far-left party with a history of antagonistic policies toward Alberta. But in terms of Bill 6 in particular, I wouldn't even say Wildrose threw gasoline on. If they did, it had only a fractional impact. That controversy got huge on its own. Part of that was unreasonable fear of adding WCB itself. Part of it because Notley utterly screwed up her own message.

[Resolute 14]

As far as the NatPost story goes - The story is bang on, but some job losses are not something I would typically qualify as a "human tragedy". The Syrian refugee crisis is a human tragedy.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by GGG

Plenty of private sector people who still have jobs got raises and bonuses this year

Ahhahaha aha haha haha haha haha ha. Yeah, good one. Staying employed is your bonus this year.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Ahhahaha aha haha haha haha haha ha. Yeah, good one. Staying employed is your bonus this year.

My former company gave bonuses earlier this year. Not to everybody but some folks who worked hard and performed well. I know a few more tech companies that did quite well this past 12 months too.

Shall we continue the hyperbole that the whole private sector is suffering, or can we at least just isolated it into a relative argument for the O/G industry?