Alberta Politics Thread

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At some point the NDP can whine all they want about laying off people and cutting services. but the time is coming when that decision will be taken away out of economic reality.

We're too inefficient and too mid and top heavy in the public service, and we have a unafordable cost structure.

Given their governance so far, I'm not sure why they would care.

At all.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Corporate Income Taxes are taken on profit and not revenue. Projects and new investment that requires a specific ROI may be delayed or shelved but the average business won't go out of business by paying an extra 2% on their profits.

If they can generate the profit to have to pay a tax then they are healthy enough to stay operating, I've never heard of a company closing it's doors because it makes slightly less money than it made yesterday. They close when they stop making money and usually by that time they haven't been paying taxes in a long time.

If only tax increases happened in a vacuum and businesses could merrily keep paying more without it adversely impacting them.

Truth is, when taxes go up, businesses either pass the costs on to their customers (which can't happen in this environment), or they cut costs.

Cutting costs either means reduced salaries (meaning consumers have less to spend, which is bad for revenues), or cutting other costs, which directly results in lower revenues for other businesses.

Both of those exacerbate the problem of overall revenues (and thus profits) spiralling downward. The net result of course: lower tax revenues for our beloved government.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

the decision on the hospital laundry is an example of a partisan interest over economic.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ices-1.3725703

http://susanonthesoapbox.com/2016/08...bro-linen-flap
This blogger does raise a few points that don't seem to have been covered by the news organizations

As I understand the article, AHS still has to pay for new facilities under the privatization option

[Slava]

nm, not worth it.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by Slava

My point is that if business owners are looking at taxes that haven't been implemented yet and blaming those for business failure today though, its disingenuous.

Not true. If you are just treading water now, and the writing is on the wall, why continue to run a business forward into a future economy where the assets will be worth less. I shred documents, I get to talk to people every day lately making the decision to close it up now based on next years costs.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Not true. If you are just treading water now, and the writing is on the wall, why continue to run a business forward into a future economy where the assets will be worth less. I shred documents, I get to talk to people every day lately making the decision to close it up now based on next years costs.

Very true. But what's worse is the effect on new business. I send business plans back daily because they have mot properly accounted for these future costs. Not surprisingly I don't get very many of them back.

[Kjesse]

If anyone truly wants to put their neck out and defend the NDP's record at this point, I'd love to hear it. Then again, I'd probably enjoy the responses more.

[CliffFletcher]

Paying for operating costs with borrowed money is reckless. But so was more than a decade of paying for operating costs with energy royalty windfalls.

Albertans are like a seven-year-old who still breast feeds. Time to grow up and decide what level of public services we're willing to fund and fund them the way every other constituency in the modern world does - through income taxes and sales taxes.

[CaptainCrunch]

Ceci needs to be fire. I'll be glad though if he gets hammered in the next election, the guy is an a$$, a BS artist and singularly unsuited to his current job.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Paying for operating costs with borrowed money is reckless. But so was more than a decade of paying for operating costs with energy royalty windfalls.

Albertans are like a seven-year-old who still breast feeds. Time to grow up and decide what level of public services we're willing to fund and fund them the way every other constituency in the modern world does - through income taxes and sales taxes.

Usually agree with you virtually all the time and even here, the sentiment I think you're right in that Albertans will be facing some tough decisions for our standard of living here in the medium to long-term BUT-

We still have not seen what the finances can look like with a polishing of the administration of major public groups in education and health care. There's some serious organizational evaluation that needs to be made by our government and I am not even talking the front line here. I would feel completely comfortable with a PST, with increased costs and decreased standard of living if our government had actually grown a pair of balls and made the tough choices that everybody knows needs to be made.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ceci needs to be fire. I'll be glad though if he gets hammered in the next election, the guy is an a$$, a BS artist and singularly unsuited to his current job.

All finance ministers are BS artists.

I actually feel bad for Ceci. From brief interactions, and the opinions of people I trust who know him better, he's a really good guy. But as the only member of the NDP caucus with any experience in government, he was thrust into a role that he's not suited for.

[killer_carlson]

nm

[Kjesse]

I would not agree that "all" finance ministers are BS artists, but its pretty clear Cici has been thrust into a role far above his ability. Worse, he is being directed by a group which does not actually grasp the situation.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Slava

My point is that if business owners are looking at taxes that haven't been implemented yet and blaming those for business failure today though, its disingenuous

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Not true. If you are just treading water now, and the writing is on the wall, why continue to run a business forward into a future economy where the assets will be worth less. I shred documents, I get to talk to people every day lately making the decision to close it up now based on next years costs.

Busted.

This is exactly the kind of bull#### economics that caused the collapse of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. The NDP is spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave because tomorrow will be more betterer.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Busted.

This is exactly the kind of bull#### economics that caused the collapse of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. The NDP is spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave because tomorrow will be more betterer.

Busted for what? This is hilarious. All my point was is that companies are going through tough times aside from the NDP and their taxes/issues. While its not politically interesting, businesses are going to fail when the main commodity halves in price. The taxes don't help, but really some of these are in the more contemplative stages. CPP increases aren't solidified at all and using that as a reason why a business would fail today isn't some amazing forward looking stance, its looking into the crystal ball.

I have zero desire to defend the NDP, so don't take my comments as anything near that. But the idea that everything wrong today is the governments fault isn't accurate either.

[Robbob]

It is the cumulative effect of everything. This last week BC didn't raise the carbon tax as it was scheduled because of the current environment. I think that is what everyone always wanted since day one, a group that was nimble and understanding of the current economic environment.

[Resolute 14]

Nobody is saying that "everything wrong" is because of the NDP, Slava. But nor are we going to pretend that Notley isn't a big part of the problem. You may not want to deal with the fact that Notley is taking a bad situation and making it worse, but burying your head in the sand does not change reality.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Nobody is saying that "everything wrong" is because of the NDP, Slava. But nor are we going to pretend that Notley isn't a big part of the problem. You may not want to deal with the fact that Notley is taking a bad situation and making it worse, but burying your head in the sand does not change reality.

You're right. My post saying I contacted my MLA because I think that borrowing to pay operations is ridiculous, and right above this post from you saying that I won't defend them is putting my head in the sand.

[Resolute 14]

The guy who seemingly believes that Notley's taxes can't be causing businesses to fail as if their owners can't see the giant ocean of government created red ink coming their way says he isn't burying his head in the sand. Okay.

[GGG]

Can someone put together their estimate based on any reasonable kind of logic what they believe the split is between the NDPs impact and the business environment and a guess of what the numbers would look like under another government.