Flames stars Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau stick together

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Stamkos
Crosby
Ovechkin
Jagr
Nash
Tavares
Toews
Malkin
Monahan


Those are the 9 active players who meet your criteria. Pretty much a who's who of elite offensive players.

In a way, I almost don't blame gaudreavertime. Monahan has been criminally underrated by the fanbase since Johnny came on to the scene. The fans seem to have forgot how good Monahan is because of Johnny's flashy style.

Monahan is an incredible centerman that the Flames are extremely lucky to have, especially on a long term deal. Johnny brings something different to the table, but it doesn't diminish what Monahan brings to the table (which IMO, is even more valuable because he's a big centerman).

Just look at that list of players.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In a way, I almost don't blame gaudreavertime. Monahan has been criminally underrated by the fanbase since Johnny came on to the scene. The fans seem to have forgot how good Monahan is because of Johnny's flashy style.

Monahan is an incredible centerman that the Flames are extremely lucky to have, especially on a long term deal. Johnny brings something different to the table, but it doesn't diminish what Monahan brings to the table (which IMO, is even more valuable because he's a big centerman).

Just look at that list of players.

That list is a little misleading as the 2012-13 strike wipes out about 3 draft classes of players from having the opportunity to even get close to 80 goals during their first 3 years. Guys like Eberle (68 goals) and Skinner (64 goals) would have been on pace to hit 80 goals. Give them an extra 34 games and they'd both likely hit that mark too, along with a handful of others.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

That list is a little misleading as the 2012-13 strike wipes out about 3 draft classes of players from having the opportunity to even get close to 80 goals during their first 3 years. Guys like Eberle (68 goals) and Skinner (64 goals) would have been on pace to hit 80 goals. Give them an extra 34 games and they'd both likely hit that mark too, along with a handful of others.

Eberle was 22 during the lockout season, it had no bearing on him. If you pro-rate Skinner's lockout season to 82 games (despite him being injured and missing time), he still doesn't reach 80 goals.

Hall's the closest to being affected:

22 goals - 2011
27 goals - 2012
16 goals - 2013 lockout season.

Pro-rated to 82 games for his lockout season (again, like Skinner despite him actually missing games with injury) he would have had 29 for a total of 78 goals. Staying healthy, neither of which Skinner or Hall could do in their three years, had a bigger factor than the lockout.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Stamkos
Crosby
Ovechkin
Jagr
Nash
Tavares
Toews
Malkin
Monahan


Those are the 9 active players who meet your criteria. Pretty much a who's who of elite offensive players.

I think a slower, better shooting Toews is a pretty good offensive comparable. I don't think he'll ever have Toews' 2 way game or puck carrying ability, but Monahan should be a 30g+ 60-70 point player for a long time.

There are maybe 3 guys in the league I'd take over Monahan from 10 feet out. I wouldn't be shocked if he's the premier net front finisher in the league in his prime. He's got great vision in that area as well. It's why he and Johnny are so magical together.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

I think a slower, better shooting Toews is a pretty good offensive comparable. I don't think he'll ever have Toews' 2 way game or puck carrying ability, but Monahan should be a 30g+ 60-70 point player for a long time.

I'm going to ask again:

Why do you think Monahan (at 22) will experience zero significant gain in his offensive production for the rest of his career...

and yet...

Gaudreau (at 23) will experience a gain so significant that his product will increase by up to 28% and consistently stay at that rate?

I want to know your reasoning behind that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Man, where do you guys come up with these strawmen? Please, please read my comments. Where did I say Monahan is "done getting better"?

You guys are showing an astounding lack of reading comprehension.

Actually you are.

The word plateau which you used means "done getting better". Which is why posters have accused you of not knowing what the word means.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I'm going to ask again:

Why do you think Monahan (at 22) will experience zero significant gain in his offensive production for the rest of his career...

and yet...

Gaudreau (at 23) will experience a gain so significant that his product will increase by up to 28% and consistently stay at that rate?

I want to know your reasoning behind that.

Last I checked, Monahan had 27 goals last year. 30+ goals would imply at least a 10% jump from there, as would production beyond 63 points to 70 points. So you should have said that I see his production improving up to 10% if you say I think Johnny's would go up by up to 28%. And even then, if Gaudreau has already scored at an 81 point pace, he would only need to increase that pace by 23% to reach 100.

So really, my expectations are ~0-10+% improvement for Monahan vs ~10-23% improvement for Gaudreau, which I think is reasonable based on how steep Gaudreau's development curve has been to this point in his career.

Obviously I could be very wrong but that's my opinion and the reasoning behind it.

[JiriHrdina]

Frankly I don't care if he plateaus offensively or not. If he continues to produce at this level, there are still a lot of areas to improve on: possession, play in his own end, face offs, physicality.
His ambitions should be to be a Anze Kopitar player. And Kopitar's production is just a small slice of what makes him so valuable.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Actually you are.

The word plateau which you used means "done getting better". Which is why posters have accused you of not knowing what the word means.

plateaued means "a period or state of little or no growth or decline" http://www.dictionary.com/browse/plateaued

Over the past 2 years, that is what we have seen from him. I did not make the implication that Monahan is done getting better, just that over the past 2 years, he hasn't (from an offensive perspective)

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Frankly I don't care if he plateaus offensively or not. If he continues to produce at this level, there are still a lot of areas to improve on: possession, play in his own end, face offs, physicality.
His ambitions should be to be a Anze Kopitar player. And Kopitar's production is just a small slice of what makes him so valuable.

This. Came in with the same thought, you said it better.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

plateaued means "a period or state of little or no growth or decline" http://www.dictionary.com/browse/plateaued



Over the past 2 years, that is what we have seen from him. I did not make the implication that Monahan is done getting better, just that over the past 2 years, he hasn't (from an offensive perspective)

By suggesting that he has "plateaued" you DID in fact imply that Monahan has reached his offensive ceiling. But moreover, you continue to insist that Monahan's stagnation has spanned two years, which is patently false. 2014-15—his second season—saw him increase his production by a massive 94%! If he has experienced a "plateau" as you assert, then it has only occurred over the course of ONE season: the last season in which he increased his points total and his assists at the expense of his goal production.

Seriously, you need to stop and accept the fact that Monahan is a better player than you are insinuating.

[Gaudreauvertime]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...hnny-gaudreau/
At like 17:12 . . . Kerr thinks possibly north of 8MM, maybe 9MM . . . .

Fingers crossed he's off by a million . . .

[puckedoff]

Is this what we get as Flames fans for wishing McDavid asks for $12mm once he is RFA? $8mm is ridiculous huge and could skewer the Flames' depth down the road.

[Cole436]

If he signs for all eight years I wouldn't be suprised to see the contract close to 8M, but no way it's over. Not a chance. I think we'll see a 6 year contract around 6.75

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

plateaued means "a period or state of little or no growth or decline" http://www.dictionary.com/browse/plateaued

Over the past 2 years, that is what we have seen from him. I did not make the implication that Monahan is done getting better, just that over the past 2 years, he hasn't (from an offensive perspective)

I think you're looking at this wrong, and it's clouding your argument. I think you should look at changes from year-to-year, in which case we have an improvement from year 1 to 2, and a "plateau" as you state, from year 2 to 3.

Not really "2 years" of a plateau, but instead one year.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by the2bears

I think you're looking at this wrong, and it's clouding your argument. I think you should look at changes from year-to-year, in which case we have an improvement from year 1 to 2, and a "plateau" as you state, from year 2 to 3.

Not really "2 years" of a plateau, but instead one year.

That's fair, its all semantics in the end. I think really highly of Sean and have high hopes that he'll be a true 2 way number 1 center that can compete and win against the other top centers in the West. He's got the frame and the smarts for it - skating improvements are really the only thing holding him back from becoming that sort of player.

Luckily, skating is a skill that can be improved upon.

[djsFlames]

If Monahan improves on his puck possession and gets a little more sandpaper to his game he'll be a heck of a player. Really want to see him take a step in the overall game this season though. I'm fine with his current production, a little bump there would just be gravy.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Is this what we get as Flames fans for wishing McDavid asks for $12mm once he is RFA? $8mm is ridiculous huge and could skewer the Flames' depth down the road.

The thing that really sewers depth is paying replacement players like Stajan, Engelland, Jones, Smid and Raymond a combined $17m dollars. Compared to that, a $1m overpay to Gaudreau is nothing, especially if it buys 8 years. Going forward, the Flames have to avoid spending millions of dollars on bottom half of the lineup players and they will be fine.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...hnny-gaudreau/
At like 17:12 . . . Kerr thinks possibly north of 8MM, maybe 9MM . . . .

Fingers crossed he's off by a million . . .

I would be shocked if Gaudreau's extension is anywhere near $8 m. Kerr is spit-balling here, and I think he is WAY off.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

plateaued means "a period or state of little or no growth or decline" http://www.dictionary.com/browse/plateaued



Over the past 2 years, that is what we have seen from him. I did not make the implication that Monahan is done getting better, just that over the past 2 years, he hasn't (from an offensive perspective)

It's actually only over the past year, not two years. 2014-2015 was a big improvement over the prior season. 2015-2016 is the only year he didn't increase production.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk