The failure of Liberalism (Regressive left) to deal with Islam
So this topic has come up in a number of threads, and I think we have a need to discuss this specific discussion on the ongoing lefts justice warrior movement (safe spaces, banning speech they dislike, etc)...
First we have to understand what the regressive left means, here is a great discussion from a Muslim and a Liberal who dislikes the regressive left.
One of the more disturbing examples of this occured about 3yrs ago in Britain, where on college the Feminist group and the Islam group joined up to try to stop a former Muslim woman from speaking.
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
The people making common cause with conservative Muslims out of some misguided prioritization of cultural sensitivity think they're the ones who are analogous to the pro gay marriage activists of 10-15 years ago.
Gays are a persecuted minority constantly under attack by the right wing! Muslims are a persecuted minority constantly under attack by the right wing! You see how this goes. They're not even totally wrong; the pro-gay-marriage fight had a lot of moralizing, care-ethic driven thinking and self-righteousness to it, too, even though the cause was good. I can definitely say that when I was in university I thought people who were opposed to gay marriage were inherently worse human beings who I didn't really want to interact with.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
We can, I am just really, really pessimistic about what's about to happen here given some of the posters on this board. This just seems to be one of those things that people need to have the light bulb turn on for themselves rather than being convinced by others.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
We can, I am just really, really pessimistic about what's about to happen here given some of the posters on this board. This just seems to be one of those things that people need to have the light bulb turn on for themselves rather than being convinced by others.
I feel like this is a topic that needs to be discussed and those who want to have a thoughtful discussion will have to take the high road and deal with those who use labels such as "racists" and "bigots" in order to shut down the conversation.
You're not really asking for a discussion though. You're asking people already opposed to the regressive left to agree with you publicly.
I'm all for it, but you're going to accomplish nothing here.
Please don't assume I am not asking for a discussion, I am hoping to bring more of my fellow liberals over to our side, in fact in our Pirate party in Iceland myself and many others are trying to counter the apologetic thread in our party by Islam.
And we're off... this video is so over the top, it creates a caricature that describes almost no one accurately. Maybe a few 18 year olds who've just left home for the first time to go study sociology, but that's about it. There's a lot more to it than this cartoon version; basically everyone's reaction to that is, "I'm nothing like that".
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
Ok, I'll wade in. The latest issue of the ISIS magazine, Dabiq, has an article called 'Why We Hate You and Why We Fight You' that reads like Sam Harris circa 2007. It says little of western adventurism / colonialism that liberals like Glen Greenwald, Noam Chomsky, etal, espouse as the root of Islamic terrorism. It's a treatise of (literally interpreted) Islam-fuelled ideological hate.
I'm interested in how Liberals square this, the very words of ISIS, that the west are the cause of all this (outside of the fact that we're mostly not devout Muslims, that is) and not Islamic ideology.
And we're off... this video is so over the top, it creates a caricature that describes almost no one accurately. Maybe a few 18 year olds who've just left home for the first time to go study sociology, but that's about it. There's a lot more to it than this cartoon version; basically everyone's reaction to that is, "I'm nothing like that".
You might be an "enlightened" liberal, but there are so many of the regressives out there, that video describes them perfectly. It's not over the top, it's not cartoonish, it's 100% truth for many "liberal progressives".
The Following User Says Thank You to LanceUppercut For This Useful Post:
Ok, I'll wade in. The latest issue of the ISIS magazine, Dabiq, has an article called 'Why We Hate You and Why We Fight You' that reads like Sam Harris circa 2007. It says little of western adventurism / colonialism that liberals like Glen Greenwald, Noam Chomsy, etal, espouse as the root of Islamic terrorism. It's a treatise of (literally interpreted) Islam-fuelled ideological hate.
I'm interested in how Liberals square this, the very words of ISIS, that the west are the cause of all this (outside of the fact that we're mostly not devout Muslims, that is) and not Islamic ideology.
The main greivance of Sayyid Qutb, who is basically the godfather of the ideology that lead to Al Qaeda, was western society itself. Not colonialism, not American soldiers in Muslim lands, not drone strikes. The way we live our life was jahiliyyah and needed to be fought against.
That ISIS article has very, very old roots.
In terms of the regressive left thing. All I want is that the bad #### that comes out of Islam to be treated with the same disdain and ridicule that people freely, and eagerly, treat the bad #### that comes out of Christianity with. There's a double standard for too many, assumedly out of Western guilt and a fear of appearing racists or culturally insensitive.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
Last edited by nik-; 08-13-2016 at 08:20 PM.
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
Exp:
I'm a left-leaning guy who thinks there are severe problems within Islam and within the Islamic community. I'm also very much a critic of Israel and have traveled widely in the ME. (My favourite city in the world - Aleppo - sadly no longer really exists.)
For the most part, I find the whole "regressive left" discussion primarily - though not solely - a strawman used by the right. Not totally, and I certainly dislike a lot of PC stuff out there, but mostly I find this debate a giant strawman.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to AltaGuy For This Useful Post:
For the most part, I find the whole "regressive left" discussion primarily - though not solely - a strawman used by the right. Not totally, and I certainly dislike a lot of PC stuff out there, but mostly I find this debate a giant strawman.
The regressive left concept was coined, and discussed most often, by the left.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
The Following User Says Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
I'm a left-leaning guy who thinks there are severe problems within Islam and within the Islamic community. I'm also very much a critic of Israel and have traveled widely in the ME. (My favourite city in the world - Aleppo - sadly no longer really exists.)
For the most part, I find the whole "regressive left" discussion primarily - though not solely - a strawman used by the right. Not totally, and I certainly dislike a lot of PC stuff out there, but mostly I find this debate a giant strawman.
Yeah, that's kind of my thoughts as well. I wasn't going to go so far as to call it a straw man, but it certainly seems like a mountain out of a mole hill scenario when people try to make it out as some new huge phenomenon.
I do however laugh at the absurdity of those that do fit the regressive left description, as it's typically people who totally think they're being progressive by basically saying "the key to progressing in this world is to progress exactly how I see fit and without discussion!!!".
Last edited by jayswin; 08-13-2016 at 08:28 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to jayswin For This Useful Post:
The failure of Liberalism (Regressive left) to deal with Islam
