Alberta Politics Thread

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

So Hoffmans new line is that the clause is invalid because the PC's didn't consult the public. Hhmm just like the NDP consulted the public about the carbon tax?

The climate panel held open houses and also accepted online submissions for 2 months. If you wanted the most GHG reductions at the lowest cost then congratulations you got it with a carbon tax. If you think that anthropogenic climate change is a hoax, or that are resources are better serve adapting to climate change rather than reducing GHG emissions then you should have told the climate panel that.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The climate panel held open houses and also accepted online submissions for 2 months. If you wanted the most GHG reductions at the lowest cost then congratulations you got it with a carbon tax. If you think that anthropogenic climate change is a hoax, or that are resources are better serve adapting to climate change rather than reducing GHG emissions then you should have told the climate panel that.

Mighty white of them, they didn't spend $100k advertising an open discussion on that now did they?

Sounds like some sort of backdoor "well you had the chance!" to me.

[CliffFletcher]

This sort of thing might help Kenney unite the right, but not in a form that will win a provincial election. Since when is Israel-Palestine a provincial issue?

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The climate panel held open houses and also accepted online submissions for 2 months. If you wanted the most GHG reductions at the lowest cost then congratulations you got it with a carbon tax. If you think that anthropogenic climate change is a hoax, or that are resources are better serve adapting to climate change rather than reducing GHG emissions then you should have told the climate panel that.

Oh I did tell them what I thought, did they listen, well no, and if you think they were actually going to listen to the public on that, well I have a bridge for sale .

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The climate panel held open houses and also accepted online submissions for 2 months. If you wanted the most GHG reductions at the lowest cost then congratulations you got it with a carbon tax. If you think that anthropogenic climate change is a hoax, or that are resources are better serve adapting to climate change rather than reducing GHG emissions then you should have told the climate panel that.

I can't believe that I get to respond to this post with an excerpt from one of my favourite books of all time, in this case on I read around grade 6 or 7. Thank for flooding this memory back:

“‘People of Earth, your attention please,’ a voice said, and it was wonderful. Wonderful perfect quadraphonic sound with distortion levels
so low as to make a brave man weep.
‘This is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council,’ the voice continued. ‘As you will no doubt be aware, the
plans for development of the outlying regions of the Galaxy require the building of a hyperspatial express route through your star system, and
regrettably your planet is one of those scheduled for demolition. The process will take slightly less than two of your Earth minutes. Thank you.’

The PA died away.
Uncomprehending terror settled on the watching people of Earth. The terror moved slowly through the gathered crowds as if they were iron filing on
a sheet of board and a magnet was moving beneath them. Panic sprouted again, desperate fleeing panic, but there was nowhere to flee to.
Observing this, the Vogons turned on their PA again. It said:
‘There’s no point acting all surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning
department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start
making a fuss about it now.’
The PA fell silent again and its echo drifted off across the land. The huge ship turned slowly in the sky with easy power. On the underside of each a
hatchway opened, an empty black square.
By this time somebody somewhere must have manned a radio transmitter, located a wavelength and broadcast a message back to the Vogon ships,
to plead on behalf of the planet. Nobody ever heard what they said, they only heard the reply. The PA slammed back into life again. The voice was
annoyed. It said:
‘What do you mean you’ve never been to Alpha Centauri? For heaven’s sake mankind, it’s only four light years away you know. I’m sorry, but if
you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs that’s your own lookout.
‘Energize the demolition beams.’
Light poured out of the hatchways.
‘I don’t know’ said the voice on the PA, ‘apathetic bloody planet, I’ve no sympathy at all.’ It cut off.
There was a terrible ghastly silence.
There was a terrible ghastly noise.
There was a terrible ghastly silence.
The Vogon Constructor Fleet coasted away into the inky starry void.”

– Douglas Adams The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy

[para transit fellow]

If this PPA deal is so above board.... Why do we have to specifically ask for the document (which has to be purchased for about $250)

Why isn't it in the standard list of documents. Available to Alberta taxpayers?

[Kjesse]

It should be, I got it but I may have access due to a subscription the general public does not. Let me check.

So, its actually $265 to buy a printed version of the PPAs from QP Source. The other options are: subscribe to QP Source Professional, Subscribe to Quicklaw, or take a trip to the UofC Law Library.

I couldn't find it on CanLii. Anyone else?

I agree everything should be free online but even a decade ago I was paying for copies of statues from the Queen's Printer before they went fully online.

[Kjesse]

For those interested, an interesting and mostly academic -- i.e. neutral -- legal discussion: http://ablawg.ca/2016/03/24/the-term...f-termination/

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The climate panel held open houses and also accepted online submissions for 2 months. If you wanted the most GHG reductions at the lowest cost then congratulations you got it with a carbon tax. If you think that anthropogenic climate change is a hoax, or that are resources are better serve adapting to climate change rather than reducing GHG emissions then you should have told the climate panel that.

They didn't run the carbon tax as part of their election campaign, and waited til they had a majority government to ram it through.

This carbon tax has very little to do with reducing greenhouse gases.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

They didn't run the carbon tax as part of their election campaign, and waited til they had a majority government to ram it through.

This carbon tax has very little to do with reducing greenhouse gases.

The carbon tax at $30 will probably match the reduction from all previous Alberta and Federal(Alberta's share) policies combined. At getting the low-hanging fruit of GHG emission reductions nothing is better than a carbon tax. If your concern is about the 30% of carbon tax revenue that is spent on green infrastructure, energy investment initiatives, and investments in renewable, than you have a valid complaint. If the opposition were to pressure the government on this they might be able to get them to convert most or all of that revenue into tax cuts.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The carbon tax at $30 will probably match the reduction from all previous Alberta and Federal(Alberta's share) policies combined. At getting the low-hanging fruit of GHG emission reductions nothing is better than a carbon tax. If your concern is about the 30% of carbon tax revenue that is spent on green infrastructure, energy investment initiatives, and investments in renewable, than you have a valid complaint. If the opposition were to pressure the government on this they might be able to get them to convert most or all of that revenue into tax cuts.

And the point of it all is still social license, which has done what exactly? Oh yeah, we got a shout out from Obama, that sure put the economy back on its legs.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This sort of thing might help Kenney unite the right, but not in a form that will win a provincial election. Since when is Israel-Palestine a provincial issue?

First, spare us the idiotic rhetoric that everybody on the right is a bigot/xenophobe/whatever other ad hominem you wish to push.

Second, the tweet was no worse than the Green Party of Canada opting to make anti-semitism party policy.

Third, Kenny is an idiot. It was no worse, but certainly no better. And rather ironic given a guy who does wish to unite two parties is promoting the cause of bitter division.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

If this PPA deal is so above board.... Why do we have to specifically ask for the document (which has to be purchased for about $250)

Why isn't it in the standard list of documents. Available to Alberta taxpayers?

There are literally thousands of documents that you have to ask for and pay to reproduce (they are under Crown Copyright at all). Why does a lack of special treatment for this document imply that the deal is not "above board"?

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

And the point of it all is still social license, which has done what exactly? Oh yeah, we got a shout out from Obama, that sure put the economy back on its legs.

No the point of this is climate change. We're doing it because as the richest province in one of the richest countries of the world we shouldn't expect to ride the coattails of other jurisdictions.

Social license is just a bonus.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

No the point of this is climate change. We're doing it because as the richest province in one of the richest countries of the world we shouldn't expect to ride the coattails of other jurisdictions.

Social license is just a bonus.

Well, we're not going to be a rich province in a rich country now. So , NDP mission accomplished!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

No the point of this is climate change. We're doing it because as the richest province in one of the richest countries of the world we shouldn't expect to ride the coattails of other jurisdictions.

Social license is just a bonus.

That is...idealistic tripe.

We're also a drop in the bucket in terms of pollution. We could reduce our emissions to zero and in the grand scheme of pollution no one would notice.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

No the point of this is climate change. We're doing it because as the richest province in one of the richest countries of the world we shouldn't expect to ride the coattails of other jurisdictions.

Social license is just a bonus.

Is the smoke coming from the smoking crater that is this provinces economy counting towards our provincial carbon emissions?

Can the NDP find a way to tax that?

[LanceUppercut]

Can we refuse to pay the carbon tax on grounds the NDP didn't have "social license" to put it into effect in Alberta? Anyone have stats on its approval rating in Alberta? Social license doesn't appear to appeal to rule of law in this country and is a completely bull#### concept.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by Locke

That is...idealistic tripe.

We're also a drop in the bucket in terms of pollution. We could reduce our emissions to zero and in the grand scheme of pollution no one would notice.

If you divide the world into Alberta size groups you'll find that everyone's emissions will also be small.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Is the smoke coming from the smoking crater that is this provinces economy counting towards our provincial carbon emissions?

Can the NDP find a way to tax that?

I think it would be more efficient to tax your hyperbole.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There are literally thousands of documents that you have to ask for and pay to reproduce (they are under Crown Copyright at all). Why does a lack of special treatment for this document imply that the deal is not "above board"?

Legislation and Regulations are overwhelmingly available free online. How is it "special treatment"?