The New American Politics thread

[peter12]

You may not like it but Buster isn't wrong.

[V]

Aha!

[Drak]

Am I missing something here? Benghazi was a tragedy but it's also one of the biggest, most shameful exploitations conducted by the right in order to create a scandal for political gain. How is the DNC speaker on par when the topic is about the treatment of American Muslims and immigrants?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Drak

Am I missing something here? Benghazi was a tragedy but it's also one of the biggest, most shameful exploitations conducted by the right in order to create a scandal for political gain. How is the DNC speaker on par when the topic is about the treatment of American Muslims and immigrants?

You're just not very trained in false equivalencies yet.

In all seriousness, it doesn't matter much whether either or both parties were exploiting the grieving parents for their own gain. This story isn't about Khan, or his speech, anyway. It's about Trump's despicable and childish reaction to a grieving parent, and his bizarre and inexplicable unwillingness to let it go even as the HMS Trump is clearly taking on water.

If Clinton had showed the same lack of judgment after the RNC, that might be a comparison worth making. She didn't. Trump lost his mind for no reason and made an ill-advised attempt to bully his way through a controversy that he mostly brought on himself.

If he had simply made the smart move and said nothing, we wouldn't even be talking about Khizr Khan today.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

You're just not very trained in false equivalencies yet.

In all seriousness, it doesn't matter much whether either or both parties were exploiting the grieving parents for their own gain. This story isn't about Khan, or his speech, anyway. It's about Trump's despicable and childish reaction to a grieving parent, and his bizarre and inexplicable unwillingness to let it go even as the HMS Trump is clearly taking on water.

If Clinton had showed the same lack of judgment after the RNC, that might be a comparison worth making. She didn't. Trump lost his mind for no reason and made an ill-advised attempt to bully his way through a controversy that he mostly brought on himself.

If he had simply made the smart move and said nothing, we wouldn't even be talking about Khizr Khan today.

Except I'm complaining about Maddow, media bias, and echo chambers.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I still don't think you can complain about Maddow unless she authored it. An editor can provide a platform to conflicting views without hypocrisy. An author can't write two mutually exclusive articles without hypocrisy. But that aside, it's obviously hypocritical and there's no false equivalence whatsoever. The RNC had their grieving parent tugging at the emotional heartstrings while hurling invective at the other candidate, and the DNC had theirs.

If you happen to think that's dirty pool (without taking a position on it), it goes both ways. Saying "one was lying and the other has a good point" is merely exposing your bias, and in any event whether or not they were right is beside the point, which is that they were used to score political points.

That being said, how does it relate to echo chambers?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Buster

Except I'm complaining about Maddow, media bias, and echo chambers.

I know WHAT you're complaining about. What I don't know is WHY. The Khan fiasco is not evidence of an "echo chamber"; it's a self-inflicted wound by Trump. He has acted despicably, has no one to blame but himself, and there is no defence for his comments/actions.

Pointing to an article that Maddow had on her blog during the RNC thus really seems neither here nor there.

[MarchHare]

Katrina Pierson is Trump's national campaign spokesperson. You may have seen her in the news recently blaming Obama for the death of Humayun Khan despite the fact that Capt. Khan was killed in 2004, several months before Obama was even elected to the senate, never mind the presidency.

Her Twitter history also has a few gems, like these:





Trump has all the best people working for him. Great people. The best.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Buster

Except I'm complaining about Maddow, media bias, and echo chambers.

Sorry dude, the only echo chamber at work here is the emptiness in Trumps head allowing his own words to never stop bouncing off the walls of his cranium and out his never shut mouth. No bias involved when it is Trump's own words, and own twitter account, doing the damage here.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Katrina Pierson is Trump's national campaign spokesperson. You may have seen her in the news recently blaming Obama for the death of Humayun Khan despite the fact that Capt. Khan was killed in 2004, several months before Obama was even elected to the senate, never mind the presidency.

Her Twitter history also has a few gems, like these:





Trump has all the best people working for him. Great people. The best.

Not sure what you're getting at. Mexican and African aren't races so she's not a racist.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Buster

Well, if she thought she was telling the truth, then it isn't lying...according to Clinton.

You put a grieving mother on the stage, you are exploiting her. Maddow and Co are just willing to justify it, if it suits their agenda and criticize it distastefully for the same reason.

She isn't lying if she doesn't believe it's a lie, the Republican Party is putting her up there knowing what she says is a lie

If the Republican Party puts her up there to say crazy conspiratorial things that make her look crazy that aren't true that's exploitive. Especially if they are pushing her to do it (which may or may not be the case).

Compare this to the Republican Party where the person speaking was advocating for Muslim's rights as a group.

I think you are ignoring nuance if you can't see the difference.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Katrina Pierson is Trump's national campaign spokesperson. You may have seen her in the news recently blaming Obama for the death of Humayun Khan despite the fact that Capt. Khan was killed in 2004, several months before Obama was even elected to the senate, never mind the presidency.

Her Twitter history also has a few gems, like these:





Trump has all the best people working for him. Great people. The best.

What is really revealing about this is the lack of any real talent in Trump's campaign. As much as I'm guilty of being a bit hard on poor Mitt Romney, this nitwit wouldn't have got a sniff at a senior position in the Romney campaign.

[nik-]

You guys are burying the lead on the most hysterical part.

She has a white mother and a black father.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by GGG

She isn't lying if she doesn't believe it's a lie, the Republican Party is putting her up there knowing what she says is a lie

If the Republican Party puts her up there to say crazy conspiratorial things that make her look crazy that aren't true that's exploitive. Especially if they are pushing her to do it (which may or may not be the case).

Compare this to the Republican Party where the person speaking was advocating for Muslim's rights as a group.

I think you are ignoring nuance if you can't see the difference.

This is one of the weirder, and yet more illustrative issues when it comes to mental gymnastics.

- The Khan's went on stage because they are Muslim. But to talk about what that might mean is cruel.

- Trump is mean because grieving mother.

- Only certain grieving mothers count, because a son dying in the line of duty is less sad when the mother hates Obama/Clinton

- Lying when you believe the story is exploitative. Unless you are Clinton discussing email where lying when you believe the story is acceptable.

- Muslims deserve special rights "as a group", but when you suggest Muslims might have issues regarding oppression of women, then it is unfair to assume they are all "part of a group."

Imma have to write this all down to keep track.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Not sure what you're getting at. Mexican and African aren't races so she's not a racist.

Just because shes stupid doesn't mean she's not a racist

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Buster

This is one of the weirder, and yet more illustrative issues when it comes to mental gymnastics.

- The Khan's went on stage because they are Muslim. But to talk about what that might mean is cruel.

- Trump is mean because grieving mother.

- Only certain grieving mothers count, because a son dying in the line of duty is less sad when the mother hates Obama/Clinton

- Lying when you believe the story is exploitative. Unless you are Clinton discussing email where lying when you believe the story is acceptable.

- Muslims deserve special rights "as a group", but when you suggest Muslims might have issues regarding oppression of women, then it is unfair to assume they are all "part of a group."

Imma have to write this all down to keep track.

No ones complaining about either families going on stage, Trumps getting killed because he's to stupid to keep his orange yap shut, Hillary had enough sense to keep her head down and her mouth shut.
Trump then doubled down on his stupidity by comparing the life of a millionaire to the sacrifice of losing a son for your country, again no can be this effing stupid so I go back to my premise that he's throwing this on purpose.

But it's your choice, your candidate is either dumber than my kids dead pet fish or a Manchurian candidate for the Clintons.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No ones complaining about either families going on stage,

Maddow, Brenan et al were rather scathing of the RNC for doing it, as you can see.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Buster

This is one of the weirder, and yet more illustrative issues when it comes to mental gymnastics.

- The Khan's went on stage because they are Muslim. But to talk about what that might mean is cruel.

- Trump is mean because grieving mother.

- Only certain grieving mothers count, because a son dying in the line of duty is less sad when the mother hates Obama/Clinton

- Lying when you believe the story is exploitative. Unless you are Clinton discussing email where lying when you believe the story is acceptable.

- Muslims deserve special rights "as a group", but when you suggest Muslims might have issues regarding oppression of women, then it is unfair to assume they are all "part of a group."

Imma have to write this all down to keep track.

I'm out, because I'm lost at all your logical leaps.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by GGG

I'm out, because I'm lost at all your logical leaps.

I'm not making logical leaps. I'm identifying them.

Or at least I'm identifying how the Maddow's, Brenan's of the world apply logic in a highly selective manner.

[GGG]

B is a subset of A
C is a subset of A
B does not equal C