Recession drags rising number of Albertans into financial ruin

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Another one that I was happy to see some responses on was the ability for laid off workers to get random low laying jobs. I applied at grocery stores, banks, home improvement stores, etc. And I often didn't even get a call. I was college educated with many years of white collar experience. I did get a couple interviews at a bank for a teller position but the manager was worried I would leave if I found something better so he went with someone else.

Exactly. I think professionals have a romanticized idea of applying for lower skilled jobs if they've never done it.

You get a feeling that there's this sense that an Oil and Gas worker can walk into a fast food restaurant and go "look at these credentials, obviously I'm above the normal plebs that apply here, when do I start?"

and think the hiring manager will go "WOOOAAAAHHHH, look how over but unrelatedly qualified you are, of course you've got the job over the dozens of actually qualified applicants!!!". It's literally the complete opposite of that and very difficult for professionals to hop into a lesser industry for short term fixes. You know your intentions with those jobs and so do the companies you're applying for.

The only thing you can do is lighten your resume or highlight that you actually worked in said industry at some point in your life, if you actually did.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Exactly. I think professionals have a romanticized idea of applying for lower skilled jobs if they've never done it.

You get a feeling that there's this sense that an Oil and Gas worker can walk into a fast food restaurant and go "look at these credentials, obviously I'm above the normal plebs that apply here, when do I start?"

and think the hiring manager will go "WOOOAAAAHHHH, look how over but unrelatedly qualified you are, of course you've got the job over the dozens of actually qualified applicants!!!".

And this is where the skill of 'massaging' a resume comes in handy.

"P.Eng? Why no...no I'm not *wriggles ring off finger* why whatever gave you that crazy idea?"

[Sylvanfan]

I have to fill my Document Control position for a maternity leave. I expect that there will be a lot of over qualified people apply.

As it currently stands our Document control is more like a drafting office administrative position. I'd rather get an less experienced person who I know will last the full year than an over qualified person who will get bored and leave in 4 months. Plus our General Manager might make what DC people in Calgary do. I still have a budget.

So I can see why it's tough for qualified people to find something to get by. I often pass over people who are over qualified expecting that I'll just be watching them leave in 3 months.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by Locke

And this is where the skill of 'massaging' a resume comes in handy.

"P.Eng? Why no...no I'm not *wriggles ring off finger* why whatever gave you that crazy idea?"

"Massaging" might be possible if you are 25 and have been out of school, working professionally for a couple of years. If you are 35 with a decade of professional experience, how do you massage your resume to apply for a restaurant job, unless massage you mean flat out lie? Then what do you do about references? Get your friends and family to lie for you?

[CliffFletcher]

You know, there are jobs between engineering and flipping burgers in terms of qualifications and pay. Office temp agencies have seen their placements drop 20 per cent - they haven't fallen off a cliff.

[dobbles]

Regarding the job stuff, I think there are a couple more issues at play I would love to hear what others think. First is that jobs require specialized skills or training that are specific to industry. I have worked the better part of a decade in marketing with some time as a business analyst. Yet when I have been on job searches, I can rarely get a sniff at any jobs in the healthcare industry. Even if they are functions like marketing or IT that are somewhat universal. There seems to be enough specialization (or just perceived that way by HR/placement firms) that they often only consider a pool with very small numbers of trained folks.

The other related part is experience. When I have been in the job market, I have found very few positions that didn't require some experience already. In my earlier post, I mentioned I applied to be a bank teller several years ago. One of the reasons I did that is it was a position that didn't require past experience. But as noted, I was told I was overqualified for that. Many of these industries seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. They want experienced folks but don't really offer any way to get that experience.

I just think even those in between jobs that Cliff speaks of are more elusive than we would like to think.

I am fortunate to have a great job now; but because of our families life choices with regards to moving around the country and letting my wife's career drive our decisions, I have been in the job market many times and spent long periods of time out of work and actively looking. So I do have a lot of experience in the area.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You know, there are jobs between engineering and flipping burgers in terms of qualifications and pay. Office temp agencies have seen their placements drop 20 per cent - they haven't fallen off a cliff.

I've heard it's been significantly worse than that, myself. But IIRC correctly you actually deal with temp agencies, right?

[Shazam]

"Overqualified" means really only one thing:

They're afraid you won't take direction, and that you'll want to do things "your way" and that you're going to be condescending and patronizing to existing employees, handing out nuggets of wisdom from your time in the O&G industry.

Also, they're afraid that you'll want to advance quickly, stomping over the people that have been there for ages.

So you need to clearly state that you're a team player, you'll do things their way and that you're not there to become boss after two years.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

"Massaging" might be possible if you are 25 and have been out of school, working professionally for a couple of years. If you are 35 with a decade of professional experience, how do you massage your resume to apply for a restaurant job, unless massage you mean flat out lie? Then what do you do about references? Get your friends and family to lie for you?

As someone who does hiring this is what you're supposed to address in a cover letter and interview.

[Julio]

As the ops guy in a small office (10 staff year round) I had to hire 2 staff for May-August work. I didn't consider anybody with O&G experience, partly because the jobs were not ones geared for that skill set (delivery driver and CSR/date input roles), and because I have been burned in the past in other situations by folks leaving.

[flamesfever]

A few ideas to consider:

- house cleaning

- driving a taxi

- jobs in sales

- shoveling or blowing snow from Nov to May

- lawncare

- construction

- home maintenance and repair

- some of the ranches or farms may need help

- painting

- book keeping

- household organizing and running errands

- being a nanny

- teaching English to New Canadians

- tutoring

- teacher's aid

- lunch room supervisor

- school bus driver

- car jockey

- companion for elderly or sick person

[taco.vidal]

Even Cash Corner is struggling.

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ys-cash-corner

Recession chills Calgary's last stop for employment: 'cash corner'
A new study by a neighbourhood business group found transient workers looking for odd jobs have little luck on cash corner, which stretches from 12th Avenue to 13th Avenue S.W. Researchers with the Victoria Park business improvement area spent 160 hours last spring and summer observing the stretch of curb, finding that out of 25 labourers waiting for work on a given weekday morning, only four will be picked up.

Men who lined the sidewalk one recent morning said there was a time when they could earn a decent living from the odd jobs they landed while standing on the concrete slabs. Now, workers find their options dwindling in a sagging economy as Alberta copes with the highest unemployment rate west of Atlantic Canada: 7.9 per cent in June, well above the national rate of 6.8 per cent.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I've heard it's been significantly worse than that, myself. But IIRC correctly you actually deal with temp agencies, right?

The 20 per cent figure is from an article I read in the Herald last week. But no, I don't have any personal insight besides working for temp agencies when I was younger. But if you really want to find work, they're a good bet. If you have any kind of office skills they can usually find something for you. And if you do a good job, you'll eventually end up with a full-time job offer. This is true of manual labour agencies as well - if you have a pulse and no criminal record, they'll find you work.

I'm not saying things aren't tough, or that losing your job is something anyone deserves. I simply don't believe that in a city this size you can go 12 months without working at all unless you have unrealistic expectations.

[polak]

Originally Posted by dobbles

We are like 80 posts in now and a vast majority of them are still just people piling on with reasons they are so good with money and everyone else is so bad. It's a theme that pops up pretty regularly and even is a CP mini-meme that often is used as a joke in other threads.

I think it's pretty funny that people who got live through the most prosperous time for any city in Canadian history are giving lectures about how other people are so poor with their finances.

Yes, you were able to max out your contributions in every savings tool while the only sacrifices you made involved going on 2 vacations a year instead of 3 and saying no to the Navigation in your new truck. You're a financial hero.

Broad stroke but valid. If you bought your house in 2004 for under 200 Grand and had it skyrocket in value +100%, don't forget how incredibly lucky you are.

[peter12]

Polak has been hitting a pretty solid streak of good posts lately.

Yes, making tons of money makes everything easier. Obvious, but overlooked by the financial Puritans.

Also, switching fields is extremely difficult. Sectors are almost like tribes.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by polak

I think it's pretty funny that people who got live through the most prosperous time for any city in Canadian history are giving lectures about how other people are so poor with their finances.

Yes, you were able to max out your contributions in every savings tool while the only sacrifices you made involved going on 2 vacations a year instead of 3 and saying no to the Navigation in your new truck. You're a financial hero.

Broad stroke but valid. If you bought your house in 2004 for under 200 Grand and had it skyrocket in value +100%, don't forget how incredibly lucky you are.

meh, it's irrelevant who is giving the lecture or label. It doesn't change the fact that some people are bad with money.

[DigitalCarpenter]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I did get a couple interviews at a bank for a teller position but the manager was worried I would leave if I found something better so he went with someone else. I ended up working at Best Buy for a few months before I was able to get on with a company as a business analyst.

I found it amusing that you explained what the employers issues was in the first sentence then demonstrate how it happens in the next sentence.

Nobody is blaming you for taking the job upgrade but it is this situation that scares employers off because training people costs time/money and losing someone before they pay back that investments sucks.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

A few ideas to consider:

- house cleaning

- driving a taxi

- jobs in sales

- shoveling or blowing snow from Nov to May

- lawncare

- construction

- home maintenance and repair

- some of the ranches or farms may need help

- painting

- book keeping

- household organizing and running errands

- being a nanny

- teaching English to New Canadians

- tutoring

- teacher's aid

- lunch room supervisor

- school bus driver

- car jockey

- companion for elderly or sick person

you forgot fire arms repair

and business management

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It's not really disgusting, it's smart on the part of non-Oil and Gas companies. It sounds harsh as there's so many people looking for work, but the reality is people employed in Oil and Gas will almost always go straight back the second they have a chance.

Again, nothing wrong with that on the part of O&G workers, but they have to understand that their intentions and career plans are crystal clear to hiring managers at lesser businesses and they have to do what's best for their business.


Candidate A: worked in retail/fast food for ten years, knows the routines, knows the pace expected, is comfortable with the atmosphere, has a life set up that is based around $12-$15hr, will stay for a long time if the job suits him/her.


Candidate B: has worked for $65-$85k for the last ten years, isn't used to the demanding, stand up pace of fast food, feels embarrassed at surving burgers, needs to get something higher paying asap to keep up with a higher earning lifestyle.

You take candidate A, it's a business decision, not personal.

This is pretty much bang on. No matter how much retailers and other lower wage employers try to pitch lifestyle of being at home more often and sustainability with their employment, almost everyone who has had the taste of O&G will go back there as soon as the economy picks back up.

Even in "lower skilled" roles, it can take between 3-6 months to have a fully productive employee. You want stability.

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

The economic factors and prevailing attitudes affect how many people handle their money. As most of you have probably observed, those that were affected by the Great Depression are in their late 80's and 90's and are extremely frugal. I knew a person who used to pull the plug on her electric clock, when she left the house, to save money. The fear of being destitute must have been so intense that it changed their spending behavior for the rest of their lives.

Nowadays, people think they should have everything before they earn it. They end up paying much more for everything, and miss half the fun of looking forward to owning something after they have worked for it.

Also it baffles me to see people thinking they wouldn't be happy with any house that is less than 2000 square ft, when no matter how small the space, the human brain will automatically adjust to make it comfortable in a short period of time. Some are starting to realize this, with the advent of the "mini houses" being built with only a few hundred square ft.

Also I see people thinking that if something is more than 10 years old, it must be due for replacement. Just look at the number of things in landfills that still have good use left in them.

In order to keep up with the Joneses, many think they have to drive an expensive car, when the sum of the intitial cost, the fuel, the insurance, and the maintenance is killing them financially.

I can't believe how much people spend on being continually entertained. Whether it's the internet, phone bills, movies, eating out, etc., it's keeping many people poor and unable to save for "rainy days" or retirement.

The unusually long period of big wages that came with the $100. oil in Calgary only helped to reinforce the above attitudes. Those that didn't realize what forces were acting on them, and that history always repeats itself, are doomed to suffer the consequences.

And a society that reinforces it. About a month ago in Grande Prairie I saw a billboard advertising 0% interest on an absurdly long loan for an RV. A can't remember the number of months but when I did the math it was in the 12 year range.

No concept of financial vulnerability (if I lose my earning power, what am I on the hook for - cable can be cancelled, I may not be able to avoid the car payment).

This is also amplified by an education system that does an extremely poor job of teaching finances.

I'll caveat here that I'm speaking from 20 years ago when I was in high school, but I've seen little to nothing that makes me think it's changed.

I remember learning about the stock market (just enough to be dangerous to myself) but not touching on mortgages and different types of mortgages, savings, why not to combine your car/boat/quad loan with your mortgage, etc. Nothing about an RRSP and the pros and cons of it.

There are so many good habits that people can do that most just don't and I think budgeting is an abstract concept for many because it never had be learned and now having stuff is "normal". Akin to your car example - "sure I can afford the adoption fee for this dog, so I'm good." No thought about the food, vet bills, toys, grooming, leashes, kenneling/care costs when vacationing, etc.