Alberta Politics Thread

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by V

Huh, I remember quite a bit of commentary on this, and not just the hyper left side either. They spent a boat load of "He's just not ready" money long before the election ever started and I remember that getting a lot of traction.

True, but those were Conservative Party ads paid from the party's fundraising. And while the ads were hilariously bad, those weren't examples of the governing party using government money on partisan advertising.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I don't think you've demonstrated that at all. It's entirely plausible that the Alberta government is attempting to protect Albertans from the PPA buyers.

That's the spin they would have us believe, yes.

Clearly, we need Notley and Hoffman to protect us from the people that employ Albertans and made multi-billion dollar, multi-decade commitments to the province.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I don't think you've demonstrated that at all. It's entirely plausible that the Alberta government is attempting to protect Albertans from the PPA buyers.

It's a really tough sell by the Alberta Government that this law suit is all about "protecting consumers".

Even if the NDP were to win the case, there are clauses in the PPAs that allow the power companies to pass the increased costs on to consumers.

No matter what happens in the case, the consumer will have to pay the consequences of the NDP carbon levy.

I'm with CapCrunch on this one, this lawsuit seems more about the NDP trying to shift the blame for increased electricity costs to the power companies, when in reality its their own fault.

Just because the NDP doesn't agree with the "more unprofitable" clause in the PPAs, doesn't necessarily mean that its unlawful or illegal. It will be very interesting to see what ruling the judge gives in this case.

[monkeyman]

This PPA fiasco is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the far-reaching implications of a carbon tax. hold onto your hats boys, it's going to be a rough ride, and for far longer than the mandate of the last election. It'll hurt all Albertans, but none so much as the minimum wage earners, elderly and fixed income Albertans. How they can claim to be sticking up for Albertans in any regard, really is beyond me.

Sticking up for Albertans:
Oil and gas industry - pass
Pipelines - pass
Small business - pass
PPA agreements - check

[Locke]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

This PPA fiasco is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the far-reaching implications of a carbon tax. hold onto your hats boys, it's going to be a rough ride, and for far longer than the mandate of the last election. It'll hurt all Albertans, but none so much as the minimum wage earners, elderly and fixed income Albertans. How they can claim to be sticking up for Albertans in any regard, really is beyond me.

Sticking up for Albertans:
Oil and gas industry - pass
Pipelines - pass
Small business - pass
PPA agreements - check

Its actually funny, I was having this discussion earlier.

They're looking out for the little guy by raising their wages, eventually, to $15/hour.

While at the same time raising their personal taxes, raising taxes on businesses who will in turn cut staff and hours, jacking up the Property Taxes if these poor souls are unfortunate enough to be Capitalist swine and property owners and they're good Proletariats their Capitalist swine landlords are going to eagerly pass that cost onto them.

And just when all of these wonderful things happen and you might be lucky enough to have kept your head above water they're going to stomp their Bolshevik boot in your face to keep you well and truly down by jacking the hell out of utility costs.

Its going to be a cold winter in Siberia comrades, line up for Government issued Orange Blankets and bread!

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It would be different if the infrastructure was there or the alternatives, so you could basically go to these utilities and say if you stay on coal it will cost you $150 million bucks a year, but if you go to these unicorn fart powered generators that we have built it will cost you the same as it used to cost you.

The majority of coal plants in Alberta are close to reaching their end-of-life which means for these plants to continue operating they'll need to meet the 2012 GHG limits for coal-plants of 420 ton CO2/GWhr plus comply with modern standards for other pollutants. That's impossible to meet without CCS, and that's probably going to cost you somewhere in the tens of billions for our coal plants.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

The majority of coal plants in Alberta are close to reaching their end-of-life which means for these plants to continue operating they'll need to meet the 2012 GHG limits for coal-plants of 420 ton CO2/GWhr plus comply with modern standards for other pollutants. That's impossible to meet without CCS, and that's probably going to cost you somewhere in the tens of billions for our coal plants.

But the question is simple

I get getting rid of the coal plants, that's inevitable. But they haven't even started to really pull in bids on constructing new sources of energy, frankly they don't even really have a plan in place that I've seen in terms of what alternatives they're going to use.

So these replacements are at best years away.

Yet they're jacking up the costs now when there's no real alternatives.

Or very few alternatives.

How is that in any way fair?

Beyond that, I was talking to my folks last night. They're both older, and they saved enough enough to be comfortable in their retirement, but not rich, they use their pensions wisely, and use very little of their savings.

They stopped traveling not because of the expense of it, but because of my Mom's brain injuries due to a fall, and concerns about sitting in a plane at 40 thousand feet and my mom having an episode.

But my Dad looked at me over a cheap coop beer and stated "I'm glad we're in our 80's and we're probably not going to be around much longer, because with the NDP plan, we'll probably be eating through our savings and end up eating dog food"

When I bought up the rebate, he laughed and stated "Great that covers our utility increases and we don't drive much anymore, so it should cover our gas. But everything else is going to go through the roof".

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I don't think you've demonstrated that at all. It's entirely plausible that the Alberta government is attempting to protect Albertans from the PPA buyers.

You seem to misunderstand the situation.

Have you checked your electricity bill recently?

If you are on unregulated pricing, you are paying for basically the cheapest power ever generated in Alberta.

The PPAs are a part of that reason. Supply was built up. Demand has fallen because Alberta's power needs have fallen. Thusly power prices have plummeted.

The PPAs have indeed benefited the consumer greatly.

Now then, every power company and their dog would love to get rid of these PPAs, because they are currently mega money losers for them.

Now the NDP has given them an out. And the NDP seems determined to go down this course.

Now the other weird thing is that these PPAs of concern expire in four measly years. Personally, I fail to understand why the NDP are so hellbent on accelerating the timeline so much, other than the usual cynical reasons.

The guy from Progress Alberta that was on 770 this week also had it totally wrong. Although he admitted that he basically had no idea what the hell was going on.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by Shazam

You seem to misunderstand the situation.

The guy from Progress Alberta that was on 770 this week also had it totally wrong. Although he admitted that he basically had no idea what the hell was going on.

Listening to that guy do mental gymnastics and try to take it off on a nonsensical tangent at every opportunity to heroize the NDP was beyond painful.

[puffnstuff]

Just looked up this Progress Alberta. Its just the NDP by another name.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Beyond that, I was talking to my folks last night. They're both older, and they saved enough enough to be comfortable in their retirement, but not rich, they use their pensions wisely, and use very little of their savings.

They stopped traveling not because of the expense of it, but because of my Mom's brain injuries due to a fall, and concerns about sitting in a plane at 40 thousand feet and my mom having an episode.

But my Dad looked at me over a cheap coop beer and stated "I'm glad we're in our 80's and we're probably not going to be around much longer, because with the NDP plan, we'll probably be eating through our savings and end up eating dog food"
.

Complete bull#### story because the coop beer is unchanged under the beer levy changes

there was a tax reduction for micro brewries... the coop brand never was eligible for the micro brewries tax changes

"Same as it ever was...."

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Complete bull#### story because the coop beer is unchanged under the beer levy changes

there was a tax reduction for micro brewries... the coop brand never was eligible for the micro brewries tax changes

"Same as it ever was...."

Did he say the price of beer was going to go up? No.. he said "He looked at me over a cheap can of coop beer".

Doesn't change the fact that everything and the god damn dog is going to go up in price in this province.

[OMG!WTF!]

People forget how short on power we were in the late '90's. We were starting to get rolling outages and super high peak demand pricing. We were not in a position to negotiate much. Fair is fair.

And for the record I think Big Rock makes Coop Gold beer.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Complete bull#### story because the coop beer is unchanged under the beer levy changes

there was a tax reduction for micro brewries... the coop brand never was eligible for the micro brewries tax changes

"Same as it ever was...."

Swing and a miss, either I was A) trying to take an additional shot about the beer thing

Or B) My dad has the worst beer taste ever.

Yeah its B) my family has the worst taste in beer ever. Coop gold label is terrible, and my sisters favorite beer is Pilsner, which to me is just freaking terrible.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Complete bull#### story because the coop beer is unchanged under the beer levy changes

there was a tax reduction for micro brewries... the coop brand never was eligible for the micro brewries tax changes

"Same as it ever was...."

You've taken sticking up for the NDP to the point of sticking up for Co-Op Gold beer. You sir have gone full Oiler. You have crossed the line between man and Oiler. You are now an Oiler.

Good day.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah its B) my family has the worst taste in beer ever. Coop gold label is terrible, and my sisters favorite beer is Pilsner, which to me is just freaking terrible.

You shut your mouth! You're talking about a national treasure!

In seriousness, Pil has a certain charm to it. It's not "good" by any useful standard for evaluating beer quality, but it's... it's just Pil, yknow?

Anyway I have to assume Para Transit Fellow was joking. Surely nobody could be that obtuse.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its actually funny, I was having this discussion earlier.

They're looking out for the little guy by raising their wages, eventually, to $15/hour.

While at the same time raising their personal taxes, raising taxes on businesses who will in turn cut staff and hours, jacking up the Property Taxes if these poor souls are unfortunate enough to be Capitalist swine and property owners and they're good Proletariats their Capitalist swine landlords are going to eagerly pass that cost onto them.

And just when all of these wonderful things happen and you might be lucky enough to have kept your head above water they're going to stomp their Bolshevik boot in your face to keep you well and truly down by jacking the hell out of utility costs.

Its going to be a cold winter in Siberia comrades, line up for Government issued Orange Blankets and bread!

Wasn't/isn't the NDP offering some sort of carbon tax offset for the low income? Some sort of rebate or subsidies? I can't recall but I thought I remember hearing something along those lines.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Wasn't/isn't the NDP offering some sort of carbon tax offset for the low income? Some sort of rebate or subsidies? I can't recall but I thought I remember hearing something along those lines.

Yup, its about I think and somebody can correct me about $350 dollars a year. But various groups have come out and said it should basically be about $1200.00 per year to offset cost increases to things like food and everything else.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Wasn't/isn't the NDP offering some sort of carbon tax offset for the low income? Some sort of rebate or subsidies? I can't recall but I thought I remember hearing something along those lines.

Sure, which at best likely puts them right back where they started off.

During the minimum wage debate I consistently argued that the key to helping lower income families wasnt raising their wages and giving them more money, it was about ensuring an increase of their purchasing power.

Make their money go further by lowering their costs so that things like rent, food and utilities are more affordable.

Nice to see them go in the opposite direction on that score.

If you want to be friendly to low income families make the costs of living reasonable.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sure, which at best likely puts them right back where they started off.

During the minimum wage debate I consistently argued that the key to helping lower income families wasnt raising their wages and giving them more money, it was about ensuring an increase of their purchasing power.

Make their money go further by lowering their costs so that things like rent, food and utilities are more affordable.

Nice to see them go in the opposite direction on that score.

If you want to be friendly to low income families make the costs of living reasonable.

This is certainly a much better way to go. Raising the minimum wage to $15 won't necessarily make anyone richer if the cost of living increases as well.

The political optics are good though. It looks better to say "we have helped Albertans by raising the min. wage to $15" vs getting into details on nitty gritty social programs which actually benefit disparaged individuals or families under selective criteria.