The New American Politics thread

[Azure]

Sorry, but Hillary is a nut job. Trump is a bigger one, but like someone said on Twitter today, right now the US is deciding what is worse. What Trump had said he will do, or what Hillary has already done. Both are terrible choices.

Why would I want to vote for someone with a long history of corruption and lying? Go back to what Obama said about Hillary in 2008. He wasn't wrong then. Why is he wrong now?

Picking the lessor of two evils doesn't mean the lessor is not a completely horrid choice.

There was a better option, but the DNC smeared him to the point where he had no chance.

At this point I would vote for Gary Johnson.

[Buster]

Ironically Gary Johnson would beat Hillary if he was on the Republican ticket with his current policies.

He's essentially socially liberal and fiscally conservative - if you ask 10 of yours friends their political leanings, they would say "Fiscal responsibility, without the socially right garbage that normally comes with voting conservative."

[Schultzie]

Originally Posted by Itse

People should really stop making these completely ridiculous "equivalencies".

Hillary Clinton is not a nutjob. Not even her opponents call her a nutjob.

Okay, so she's a pathological liar and a warmonger. Better?

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Buster

I would agree with this. Except maybe the liar part.

Hillary has a long history being a liar.

Politicians in general are relatively dishonest, or at the very least disingenuous.

Trump is not only a liar solely for political expediency, he's also literally just makes things up. Just absolutely crafts stories out of thin air. And then sometimes he doubles down on them, and other times he pretends he never made the comments at all.

All politicians play the sleight of hand game. Trump just says whatever thought pops into his head at any moment, seemingly without any filter for accuracy or content.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sorry, but Hillary is a nut job. Trump is a bigger one, but like someone said on Twitter today, right now the US is deciding what is worse. What Trump had said he will do, or what Hillary has already done. Both are terrible choices.

Why would I want to vote for someone with a long history of corruption and lying? Go back to what Obama said about Hillary in 2008. He wasn't wrong then. Why is he wrong now?

Picking the lessor of two evils doesn't mean the lessor is not a completely horrid choice.

Hillary Clinton has a ton of negative qualities. I can't stand her. But she also has a huge list of positive accomplishments in her history, starting from her work in the sixties.

Trump has a ton of negative qualities, and then has some more negative qualities, but I'm finding it hard to find the positive contributions he has made to anything, ever.

[Buster]

It's weird that people cite Trump's failures as Trump Steaks, and Trump University.

Meanwhile Hillary has shredded the middle east, and been possibly the worse Secretary of State in modern history. Her "record" isn't exactly a place for her to brag.

[pria(kin)16]

Barry was on fire last night!

[Aarongavey]

You will know Trump really has jumped the shark if he suggests a barbaric practices phone line or gets the Ford's to campaign for him.

[Azure]

Trump is scary. No question about that.

But he has actually done very little in his life in terms of 'bad things.' Hillary on the other hand is a big part of the reason the US is where it is.

War on drugs, war on terror, war on the lower class, taxing the poor to give to the rich, etc, etc....all policies she has supported.

Sorry, but maybe pre-Bush you could say she would have made a good President, but we know too much now about how policies she supports have wrecked the US. Why would I want her in power?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Buster

It's weird that people cite Trump's failures as Trump Steaks, and Trump University.

Meanwhile Hillary has shredded the middle east, and been possibly the worse Secretary of State in modern history. Her "record" isn't exactly a place for her to brag.

The steak one is kind of funny. I mean, who would buy a steak from Donald Trump? Some people, I guess, but if it's a bad steak, you move on. You fill up on salad and garlic bread and lesson learned. The people he robbed with that "university" scam though, they were taken for real money by a real pro, and appear to be fairly pissed about it.

"shredded the middle east" is some wicked Donald-speak, so good work on that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

Sorry, but Hillary is a nut job. Trump is a bigger one, but like someone said on Twitter today, right now the US is deciding what is worse. What Trump had said he will do, or what Hillary has already done. Both are terrible choices.

Why would I want to vote for someone with a long history of corruption and lying? Go back to what Obama said about Hillary in 2008. He wasn't wrong then. Why is he wrong now?

Picking the lessor of two evils doesn't mean the lessor is not a completely horrid choice.

There was a better option, but the DNC smeared him to the point where he had no chance.

At this point I would vote for Gary Johnson.

Has Hillary lied more than the typical Politican? Obama, Bill, Bush, Bush, any senator or house member. This concept that Hillary is uniquely a liar is a media construct.

Can you provide examples of how the DNC smeared Bernie sanders in the 4th most dominant primary victory that could have affected the outcome? The race wasn't close, Bernie just didn't quit after Super Tuesday when he lost.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Buster

Ironically Gary Johnson would beat Hillary if he was on the Republican ticket with his current policies.

He's essentially socially liberal and fiscally conservative - if you ask 10 of yours friends their political leanings, they would say "Fiscal responsibility, without the socially right garbage that normally comes with voting conservative."

I agree with you, but unfortunately the Republican Party does not so a person running on that platform caps at 10-15% support.

[ResAlien]

Should we mention that Donald has never held any sort of political office. None. Zero. Somehow his ability to manipulate bankruptcy law and promote his name translates into a skillset required to run the most powerful nation on earth?

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Buster

It's weird that people cite Trump's failures as Trump Steaks, and Trump University.

Meanwhile Hillary has shredded the middle east, and been possibly the worse Secretary of State in modern history. Her "record" isn't exactly a place for her to brag.

Trump University wasn't just a financial failure--it was also a way to purposely bilk people for tens of thousands of dollars with no consequences. Those same people Trump is now claiming that he is going to support. He has repeatedly used bankruptcy laws to allow himself to skip away from astronomical amounts of debt, leaving thousands of contractors/plumbers/laborers unpaid for services rendered, while walking away financially unscathed. The few things with his name that have succeeded are often things where literally his only role was throwing 4000pt font TRUMP on the side of a building that someone else was managing.

He was born into extreme wealth and privilege, to a point where it's almost more difficult for him to fail than to just maintain status quo.

Hillary did not shred the Middle East on her own. The Middle East was a powder keg long before her taking office as SOS, and it will remain a powder keg long after that. The US handling of the Middle East has always been questionable at best and disastrous at worst. She can certainly be faulted for supporting the war in Iraq, but she's not the only one--Cheney and Bush deserve much of that blame, not to mention their Secretaries of State at the time.

Trump has an awful history and he's made absolutely insane campaign promises. Hillary has a checkered past, but she also has done good things, and can still do more good things to come.

Meanwhile Trump can't even properly figure out which politician is the Democratic VP candidate, let alone parse any kind of foreign policy ideas.

One side is a typical politician with pros and cons, the other is a moderately successful, extremely unethical businessman with a desperate need for attention.

Originally Posted by Azure

Trump is scary. No question about that.

But he has actually done very little in his life in terms of 'bad things.' Hillary on the other hand is a big part of the reason the US is where it is.

War on drugs, war on terror, war on the lower class, taxing the poor to give to the rich, etc, etc....all policies she has supported.

Sorry, but maybe pre-Bush you could say she would have made a good President, but we know too much now about how policies she supports have wrecked the US. Why would I want her in power?

He had a massive part in the downfall of Atlantic City, and with his various abuses of the bankruptcy laws in the US left tons of people unpaid for services rendered. He has been repeatedly accused of sexual harassment and assault. He used a fake "university" to scam people out of tens of thousands of dollars each.

Sure he didn't help craft policy to put thousands of people in jail--but that's because he has absolutely zero political experience outside of maybe greasing the hands of a few judges/senators/etc to get his way.

Hillary may have supported all of those things--but do you really think Trump is going to do anything different? Do you think a supposed billionaire is going to craft legislation that's going to massively raise his tax bill to help others? Do you think he'll support higher wages that cut into his profits? This is a man who complained about black men counting his money, so I'm pretty sure he's not all that concerned about helping out black people.

As far as Hillary being pro-war--this is a man who just last week said he thinks we should ignore our NATO responsibilities. I'm sure that wouldn't start any international conflicts at all, right?

Basically every single argument you have against Hillary applies also to Trump, except that he's never actually crafted or voted for legislation, because again, he has absolutely zero political experience. All of the complaints just made there about Hillary--not a single one of those policies is something that Trump would dramatically differ from.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Azure

Trump is scary. No question about that.

But he has actually done very little in his life in terms of 'bad things.' Hillary on the other hand is a big part of the reason the US is where it is.

War on drugs, war on terror, war on the lower class, taxing the poor to give to the rich, etc, etc....all policies she has supported.

Sorry, but maybe pre-Bush you could say she would have made a good President, but we know too much now about how policies she supports have wrecked the US. Why would I want her in power?

Wait, what. wasn't the war on drugs first declared by Richard Nixon in the 70's and again by President Reagan in the 80's and wasn't George W Bush the one who declared a war on terror? Wasn't the US economy on the verge of collapse just 8 years ago as Bush was leaving office? How are you pinning all that on Hillary.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

Has Hillary lied more than the typical Politican? Obama, Bill, Bush, Bush, any senator or house member. This concept that Hillary is uniquely a liar is a media construct.

Well for starters she lied about her emails.

Can you provide examples of how the DNC smeared Bernie sanders in the 4th most dominant primary victory that could have affected the outcome? The race wasn't close, Bernie just didn't quit after Super Tuesday when he lost.

Weren't there a bunch of emails released showing internal DNC discussion smearing Sanders? Discussion that happened well before he had 'lost.'

[Azure]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Wait, what. wasn't the war on drugs first declared by Richard Nixon in the 70's and again by President Reagan in the 80's and wasn't George W Bush the one who declared a war on terror? Wasn't the US economy on the verge of collapse just 8 years ago as Bush was leaving office? How are you pinning all that on Hillary.

I said policies she has supported.

15-20 years ago we didn't really see how the war on drugs was tearing apart lower class America. Now we clearly do.

If we have so much evidence of how these policies are bad for the country, why would anyone vote for someone that supports them?

Right now she just looks better than the other nutjob. But it doesn't mean she will make a good President.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Azure

I said policies she has supported.

15-20 years ago we didn't really see how the war on drugs was tearing apart lower class America. Now we clearly do.

If we have so much evidence of how these policies are bad for the country, why would anyone vote for someone that supports them?

Right now she just looks better than the other nutjob. But it doesn't mean she will make a good President.

But she's literally the only other option.

The electoral college makes it damn near impossible for a third party candidate to ever win the Presidency. Therefore you have to vote for the better of the two candidates, and also vote downticket for men and women who better support your views, so that those people downticket in the house, the senate, local representatives, etc--those are the people who help craft legislation, who really and truly guide the way the country moves.

The absolute biggest reason to vote Hillary is the three SCOTUS seats up for grabs. Trump cannot replace those. Period, end of story.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well for starters she lied about her emails.



Weren't there a bunch of emails released showing internal DNC discussion smearing Sanders? Discussion that happened well before he had 'lost.'

I asked did she lie more than typical politicians not did she lie.

And I asked what specific actions did they take to undermine sanders that could have swung voters in the amount required. Did Sanders potentionally being an atheist ever show up In the campaign? Did the DNC actually implement any of these things that were tossed around the emails.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Azure

I said policies she has supported.



15-20 years ago we didn't really see how the war on drugs was tearing apart lower class America. Now we clearly do.



If we have so much evidence of how these policies are bad for the country, why would anyone vote for someone that supports them?



Right now she just looks better than the other nutjob. But it doesn't mean she will make a good President.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issue...ustice-reform/

Here is the crime platform she's currently running on. A lot of her old positions have changed.