The New American Politics thread

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Just wait. Barack "Master Orator" Obama is about to speak.

Obama is even better than Bill, IMO.

What did Chris Matthews say 8 years ago? Bring a thrill up my leg? LOL.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Then your assumption about me is totally wrong.

In fact, this an error I think many atheists and agnostics make, that all religions are equal. I think specific beliefs have specific consequences, whether they're religious or otherwise. If you're a Muslim who thinks that God will reward you with paradise for blowing up a bus full of "infidels", that is a belief structure worth rejecting. If you're a Muslim who doesn't believe your faith demands that of you, then I don't need to convince you. If you're a Christian who thinks gays and adulterers will burn in hell and feel the need to tell that to children, that is a belief structure worth rejecting. If you're a Christian who doesn't believe that and thinks everyone should be loved without judgment, then I don't need to convince you of that point. But whether those bad beliefs are sourced in scripture or not makes no difference. They are bad beliefs. Protecting them because of their religious status has caused nothing but suffering and a drag on human progress.

Saying, "don't expect them to change" is fine. I don't expect to convince you you're wrong by arguing with you on the internet. One of the biggest problems with human beings is that our brains are improperly evolved to the extent that being challenged creates defense mechanisms whereby you'll almost never see someone change their mind in real time. But that's a very different thing than to suggest that religious beliefs are a different sort of belief subject to special status that we should hold back from criticizing them the way we do other propositions because they're really important to people and ingrained in their identity.


I don't begrudge people who choose to be religious in spite of the evidence. I begrudge anyone who suggests that people should refrain from disagreeing with their religious beliefs for any reason whatsoever. I find your world view far, far more objectionable than those of the many nominal, peaceful Muslims who live in this country, for example. If they don't want to persecute gays or oppress women on the basis of scripture or anything of the like but simply want to worship privately and act morally without harming anyone, then I consider their version of their religion far less of a threat to society than the perspective you've just expressed here.



Now let me watch this speech.

Dude. You're assuming a LOT about me. I don't excuse extremism or bad ideas in any way. I'm speaking philosophically about religion, not excusing religion across the board. I'm extremely critical of religions on a regular basis, including my wife and her family's faith.

But you seem to think that religion needs to disappear for humanity to continue in a positive way, and I disagree with that view and I also think it's extremely short-sighted.

Like I said, I'm very atheistic, but I'm not going to impose that view on anyone else.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

But you seem to think that religion needs to disappear for humanity to continue in a positive way, and I disagree with that view and I also think it's extremely short-sighted.

I don't think that either and you'll find nowhere in any of my posts where I've argued the same. My objection is to your view that there's something special about bad ideas that are religious that sets them apart from other bad ideas. There isn't, and there's a long and terrible history associated with people trying to convince others that that distinction exists. I can't be any clearer on that.

[bigtmac19]

That's a great video.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Phew, just made it into primetime.

[ResAlien]

That suit is kinda shiny

[corporatejay]

Obama is the best.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't think that either and you'll find nowhere in any of my posts where I've argued the same. My objection is to your view that there's something special about bad ideas that are religious that sets them apart from other bad ideas. There isn't, and there's a long and terrible history associated with people trying to convince others that that distinction exists. I can't be any clearer on that.

That's literally not anything close to what I've said. My argument is simple: religion fills a psychological need.

[nik-]

He must be so relieved that this is almost over for him

He can just enjoy this last time in the spotlight.

[corporatejay]

4 more years!

4 more years!

4 more years!


4 more years!


4 more years!

[GGG]

Finger on the button speech I bet

[Makarov]

I still struggle to reconcile Obama the speaker (one of the greatest) with Obama the policy-maker (so disappointing).

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I still struggle to reconcile Obama the speaker (one of the greatest) with Obama the policy-maker (so disappointing).

Is that him or the obstructionist senate? He's brilliantly navigated US energy policy

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I still struggle to reconcile Obama the speaker (one of the greatest) with Obama the policy-maker (so disappointing).

Obstructionist house and senate. Reconciliation complete.

[ResAlien]

What chant was that jabroni trying to get started?

[Makarov]

^ Fair enough. I guess my expectations were too high because I let myself be really inspired by the 2008 campaign. Really believed that change was possible in the US.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

What chant was that jabroni trying to get started?

You lie? j/k

[Senator Clay Davis]

Obama had an extended period where he had both the House AND 60 Dems in the Senate. Could have done anything with those numbers. Should have done more, once the midterms happened that was that. So while yes he was obstructed, he also blew his window to get real things done too.

[kerriffic]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

What chant was that jabroni trying to get started?

Sounded like "no on 53" to me

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

What chant was that jabroni trying to get started?

"no on TPP"