NHL to Kitchener-Waterloo??????? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

KTown · 10-08-2006, 10:44 AM

In case some of you don't know KW is 1 hour weset of Toronto. Growing up in KW I have friends that work in rim park for the new Pens owner aka Mr. Blackberry. There is rumours flying around KW saying the owner wants to move the team to KW if a new stadium is not built in Pittsburgh.

What are your thoughts? I know what people in Winterpeg would say.

My dad also mentioned it has been talked about lots in the city since the aquisition. I personally feel like it will never happen.

Populations
Kitchener-Waterloo = roughly 400,000
Cambridge (5 minutes away) = roughly 120,000
Guelph - (5 minutes) = roughly 120,000
London 45 minutes west = roughly 400,000

The fan base is there and the support for the Kitchener Rangers in the OHL draws a sellout crowd of 7000 every game. Do you think they could pack 18,000 to a game every night if a new arena was build there?

Resolute 14 · 10-08-2006, 11:04 AM

Kitchener-Waterloo has been mentioned as a possible destination if Hamilton falls through.

The metro population is similar to Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton, so it may fly. NHL calibre arena pending.

Sidney Crosby's Hat · 10-08-2006, 01:56 PM

Hamilton's a non-starter because of the Sabres. Kitchener-Waterloo would be easier because you just have to get the Leafs on board instead of both teams.

Both markets need an NHL-calibre stadium anyway and it might be easier to get one in K-W because Copps Coliseum is adequate for the Hamilton area.

Eddie Bronze · 10-08-2006, 02:12 PM

How the hell would this fly? Isn't everyone there Leafs fans? Let's just get a new arena in Pittsburgh and keep them there.

flambers · 10-08-2006, 03:01 PM

I think it would be great to have another team in Canada.

Bobblehead · 10-08-2006, 03:51 PM

The fact that Hamilton is also 45 minutes away, and Milton/Mississauga is also right there, it should have more than enough population to draw from. The only question is if those other towns would switch their allegiances. KW would, but would London, they are already split Leafs/Red Wings (more Leafs, but not an insignificant number of Wing fans).

Any talk of where a new arena would go? The Memorial Auditorium is too small even for a retrofit, isn't it (last time I was there was in '93)?

Knut · 10-08-2006, 04:16 PM

I figure if you build a new arena just North of the 401... kind of in the homer-watson turn off... you would have an hour drive from downtown London... 45 minutes from Hamilton... 30 minutes from Guelph and 45 minutes from Mississauga....

Fact is.... Maple Leafs games are almost impossible to get tickets to... another hockey team not too far away would draw pretty good just because of that. Also, the fact that Crosby and Malkin are there.... 42 times a year would sell alot of seats itself.

The biggest problem i see with it is that the big Ford plants in the area (namely Kitchener) are always on the verge of potentially shutting down... .while Waterloo, London and Guelph are big college towns.... students and out of work laborers are unlikely to buy seasons tickets...

Other than RIM in Waterloo and some financial head offices in London there are not many head offices in the area. Although i have heard that London is the richest area per capital in the entire country.

Having said all that... i doubt that a team will ever move to K-W... especially because the municipal governments are pretty inept in these areas... and construction of a simple overpass takes 3 years (highway 8 and 85).

red '00 · 10-08-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Bronze

How the hell would this fly? Isn't everyone there Leafs fans? Let's just get a new arena in Pittsburgh and keep them there.

That seems like the best idea... If the league chooses to expand later, that's fine, but I still don't think they would or should put a team in a place like Waterloo or Hamilton... wtf...

KC or Winnipeg seem to be the best options.

Bobblehead · 10-08-2006, 09:05 PM

The Penguins are a franchise that has alost folded 4 or 5 times before this most recent bout of trouble.

While it would be nice to see them stay in Pittsburgh, it seems apparent that over the last 30 years the city will only support the winners, and won't stick with them through the down times.

Pittsburgh has had their chances - time to let the franchise move on, where ever it goes.

Eddie Bronze · 10-09-2006, 01:00 AM

Even if it comes to moving the team, there has to be a better option. Winnipeg won't work. We've heard time and time again about this new arena but everyone knows they don't and won't have the necessary coporate support even if that arena is big enough, which is debateable in itself.

I personally would love to see the Nordiques back but from my understanding, there's no arena which is the biggest issue around the Penguins right now.
Houston, Salt Lake City, Portland. I'd honestly rather see a place like that get a team then see another one in southern Ontario.

Flames in 07 · 10-09-2006, 02:13 PM

Not sure how the NHL works, and what rights TML have over the area. If they have any kind of veto power, forget it, if it's a matter of price, why try? Another team in Canada would be nice, but why take on the foreign exchange risk, as well as building an new rink when there are some ready and waiting in KC, LV and Houston?

burn_baby_burn · 10-10-2006, 10:49 AM

I don't know much about the area. But if three teams can survive in the New York area and two teams in Los Angeles. Then two should be able to survive in hockey mad Toronto and area. Sure everyone is a Leafs fan. But not everybody can get in to see the Leafs. Put a team in the area with Crosby and Malkin. There will be interest right away.

Bobblehead · 10-10-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I don't know much about the area. But if three teams can survive in the New York area and two teams in Los Angeles. Then two should be able to survive in hockey mad Toronto and area. Sure everyone is a Leafs fan. But not everybody can get in to see the Leafs. Put a team in the area with Crosby and Malkin. There will be interest right away.

I do know the area, and that is my thinking. How much did the "Mighty Ducks" pay to the Kings when they joined? That should give an idea of the precedent. Publically, it was always said that the Leaf would block any move to put a team in Hamilton, but it was always rumoured that the Sabres were the real issue since at least half their building is filled with people from the Niagara peninsula.

And how many times is Pittsburgh going to need to be 'saved'? Why continue putting a team in any other non-traditional market? There will be a group of die-hard Seasons Ticket Holders, a corporate backing that want tickets to give to clients/staff, but outside the doors of the arena no one will care about the team or the game. Might just as well put in another Starbucks, at least then people will think of them every morning.

And yet there are other Canadian markets where the community would embrace a team, where a team would become part of the community and not just a check mark next to "Major Sports Franchise" on the list of reasons why this expensive building was built.

Does no one remember the lessons learned from the KC Scouts? Franchises can survive, but why limit franchises that way? I find it sad when the Stanley Cup parade is being held in the arena, or the arena parking lot. To me, that is a sign that the community at large is NOT behind the franchise. How about putting franchises where the general populace actually want the team?

Cheese · 10-10-2006, 12:32 PM

Im in Waterloo and have heard the buzz.
For those who think Winnipeg or KC would be better I would suggest that this area is just as good a choice as those....and probably better.
As Hesla pointed out, KW area, which also includes Cambridge as the tri-cities has a population in the area of 5-600,000. Including all metro populations within a 45 minute drive the KW area could easily draw from another 2 million people, with Mississauga to the east, Brantford and Hamilton to the south and London to the west...hell theres a pile of towns/townships in each quadrant in every direction. People go to Leafs games that live over an hour away...or more, so travelling is no issue whatsoever...its part of suth'n Ontarios lifestyle.
KW does have RIM, and many Insurance companies headquartering in town. Light Rail Transit is in the planning stages, and although my friend Hesla mentioned students might not buy seasons tiks, Id suggest that the Professors and all of the support staff might. Industrial services are huge here, and with large Auto manufacturing plants like Toyota, Ford etc nearby I could easily see corporate support thrown into the mix. Woodstock to the south of KW is growing in leaps and bounds...a new Auto plant is being built right now along with a new Hospital...that population will grow exponentially. The 401, Ontarios main feeder runs right by KW and picks up every other major urban centre previously mentioned.
It "could" happen....the money is here. The issue is 4- Governments...the 3 Cities and the Provincial would slow process to a snails pace.
The Junior Rangers would be out of luck...a storied franchise that has developed a great number of NHLers...including a few ex-Flames.
KW has a fantastic yearly show...Oktoberfest...that draws a half million visitors to the area and is growing.

In saying this...I still highly doubt the Pens will move...and if they do I doubt that he would move them here....unless the backroom dealing has already been completed.

I personally think the CFL would be a better first start in this area....or maybe the NFL!!!! LOL

Thunderball · 10-10-2006, 12:59 PM

As much fun as it would be for there to be another Canadian team, or two, I don't think it'll fly especially due to the Leafs vigorous protection of their turf.

I really don't want to see the Penguins move from Pittsburgh for Canada to get another team. They're too storied of a franchise (courtesy of Super Mario), and really, Pittsburgh just needs a new arena to be a strong market again... they should poach one from the South if any team needs to move.

habernac · 10-10-2006, 03:30 PM

Buccigross thinks it's a good idea: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...ohn&id=2618278

Cheese · 10-10-2006, 04:20 PM

ya funny you mention that...Bobcat on the Fan 590 in Toronto is all for it too, and was promoting the idea today as a sound move....well hell Ill be at the front of the line for tickets if it happens!

Sidney Crosby's Hat · 10-10-2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I do know the area, and that is my thinking. How much did the "Mighty Ducks" pay to the Kings when they joined? That should give an idea of the precedent. Publically, it was always said that the Leaf would block any move to put a team in Hamilton, but it was always rumoured that the Sabres were the real issue since at least half their building is filled with people from the Niagara peninsula.

It wouldn't be an issue here anyway, as the NHL protected zone is 75 miles.

Kitchener Memorial Auditorium is 65 miles from Air Canada Centre. Find a location 10 miles further down the road and you're set.

KTown · 10-10-2006, 08:27 PM

Exactly the owner allready said he would front 290 million for an arena. I'm also sure that if there is any overrun on that, the cities in the KW area would pick up the tab.

Do I think it will work? Yes

Number 1 reason, it is almost impossible to get Leaf tickets and alot of people will support the KW team. Cambridge is a huge manufacturing town and will be able to draw ton of corporate support.

Not to mention the owner is a billionaire.

Furthermore to this, even if the 29 owners disagree with his move, he can move the team as he feels. Last I checked in the NHL theres nothing in writing to stop him from moving his team.

Incinerator · 10-10-2006, 08:34 PM

I'm all for this, 1 more road trip destination for me