The New American Politics thread

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Zarley

My point is that the racism criticisms are an emotional appeal to irrational thinkers. Anyone can be Mexican and anyone can be Muslim. People seem to be forgetting the definition of the word. Xenophobia and prejudice may be the words you are looking for.

Your comments are yet another example of how US politics have devolved into a battle of persuasion rather than ideas. Branding Trump as a racist is a great play by the Hilary team, but it really does nothing to further any type of intelligent debate or conversation. Scott Adams has a nice entry on this very topic that I'd encourage everyone to read.

Okay, Trump is Xenophobic and prejudiced rather than racist. Does that help you sleep at night?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Okay, Trump is Xenophobic and prejudiced rather than racist. Does that help you sleep at night?

I think his point should be considered. One of the big issues in American Politics and in world politics is a lack of precision and nuance so it devolves to branding and talking points. If we want people to have intelligent conversations about issues I think its valid to ensure we are criticising correctly and not using loaded language to do it.

So Xenophobic and protectionist is much better language to describe Trump positions on Mexicans.

His other comments about blacks and jews though are pretty racist.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Okay, Trump is Xenophobic and prejudiced rather than racist. Does that help you sleep at night?

I think you are missing my point, which that this election is devolving into simplistic name calling that is designed to influence people on an emotional rather than rational level. I'd encourage you to read the article I linked in my post.

I don't care if Trump is racist or xenophobic or whatever. In fact, I think it's silly for one to invest themselves into American politics. We all know that nothing material will change in Washington regardless of which side is in power (other than perhaps the approval of Keystone XL). It's merely a sideshow that provides an interesting psychological study into contemporary American society.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Well we may be quibbling over nothing--I agree that there is an element of "rebellion" in the Trump movement, I just don't agree that he himself is a genuine "outsider" or "rebel."

I see Trump's movement as the militants wing of the same political revolution that Bernie talked about. The capitalist/globalist system in the US is unsustainable and has the country on the path to an inevitable major correction. That correction will either come peacefully in the form of a political socialist change in government, or in the form of a violent uprising.

Sanders supporters are educated and rational by and large, while Trump supporters are uneducated and emotional by and large. But both groups are angry, likely to get angrier, and are going to become increasingly willing to force change.

All that to say, the people who support Trump don't need a rational rebel to lead them, just a figurehead that can amplify their rage. He can lead the rebellion so long as he stays loud and angry.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I see Trump's movement as the militants wing of the same political revolution that Bernie talked about. The capitalist/globalist system in the US is unsustainable and has the country on the path to an inevitable major correction. That correction will either come peacefully in the form of a political socialist change in government, or in the form of a violent uprising.

Sanders supporters are educated and rational by and large, while Trump supporters are uneducated and emotional by and large. But both groups are angry, likely to get angrier, and are going to become increasingly willing to force change.

All that to say, the people who support Trump don't need a rational rebel to lead them, just a figurehead that can amplify their rage. He can lead the rebellion so long as he stays loud and angry.

I don't think you can classify Sanders supporters as Rational. Their emotional beliefs may be closer to your core set of arrived at beliefs but the core "religion" of Bernie or bust is still the "Man" has been screwing the "little guy" and we need to rise up and stop them.

It's basically a we're all outsiders and no one represents us so elect me. Then preaches the populist tenants of youth and the left without thought of how to implement.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I think you are missing my point, which that this election is devolving into simplistic name calling that is designed to influence people on an emotional rather than rational level. I'd encourage you to read the article I linked in my post.

I don't care if Trump is racist or xenophobic or whatever. In fact, I think it's silly for one to invest themselves into American politics. We all know that nothing material will change in Washington regardless of which side is in power (other than perhaps the approval of Keystone XL). It's merely a sideshow that provides an interesting psychological study into contemporary American society.

I care. America is a huge player on the world stage. Change starts with awareness and understanding, not ignoring the serious problems we have with racism and bigotry. Ignoring it doesn't solve anything. It won't disappear any time soon, but future generations will move forward as long as we keep it in sight and make a big deal out of it.

[nik-]

that title

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...d-trump-214079

Also a finalist for creepiest picture ever

https://books.google.ca/books?id=1OI...20york&f=false

[Drak]

Originally Posted by nik-

that title

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...d-trump-214079

Also a finalist for creepiest picture ever

https://books.google.ca/books?id=1OI...20york&f=false

Notice that picture with his daughter is right next to a statue of two parrots getting it on?

[nik-]

and it looks like the top one is puking on the bottom one. That's some kinky ####

[nik-]

but in all seriousness ... Ivanka Trump is the best thing about this election.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I think you are missing my point, which that this election is devolving into simplistic name calling that is designed to influence people on an emotional rather than rational level. I'd encourage you to read the article I linked in my post.

I don't care if Trump is racist or xenophobic or whatever. In fact, I think it's silly for one to invest themselves into American politics. We all know that nothing material will change in Washington regardless of which side is in power (other than perhaps the approval of Keystone XL). It's merely a sideshow that provides an interesting psychological study into contemporary American society.

Normally I wouldn't disagree with the sentiment that more nuance is needed.

But honestly, the nuance that hating Mexicans and Muslims isn't racist because "those aren't races" is not one that I think we really need.

Cats have four legs, two eyes and two ears--and dogs have four legs, two eyes, and two ears. But a dog is a dog, and a cat is a cat--and we all know the difference.

(unless it's a wolf)

[Senator Clay Davis]

RE: Is Trump a racist?

I honestly don't know. What I definitively know is Trump is an ends justifies the means type of individual. That his supporters truly believe he'll follow through on any of his promises speaks to low awareness by them. He'll betray them quickly if that's what benefits him. It's why he thinks he can just gloss over all his race baiting and dog whistling in the GOP race, because that's the past and that's what he (in his mind) needed to do to win. Now if he does the exact opposite? Its what he needs to do. If you could convince him being the exact opposite of what he is know would guarantee him a win, he'd be to the left of Bernie in a heartbeat.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

As we count angels on the head of a pin in discussing whether it is racist to want to deport all Muslims, or to believe that Mexicans are criminals and rapists, let's not forget about his discriminatory practices with respect to African Americans, and his comment that African Americans are "lazy." I've yet to hear anyone defend those things as somehow "not racist."

His participation in the birther movement is further evidence. Nuance is great, but sometimes a label just fits.

[MelBridgeman]

Trump - Some unrealistic ideas that aren't even close to being any sort of policy. The labeling is just hyperbole.

[troutman]

Olbermann (yeah I know) applies The Hare Psychopathy Checklist to Trump.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/...nn-sanity-test

Final Score: 32, out of 40
So, there you have it. He peters out toward the end there, but with 30 points being the marker at which professionals could present a diagnosis of psychopathy, the implications are clear.

Trump's writer for The Art Of The Deal, Tony Schwartz, is also making the media rounds, warning us against this "sociopath":

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-...-2016/1.732564

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by troutman

Olbermann (yeah I know) applies The Hare Psychopathy Checklist to Trump.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/...nn-sanity-test

Final Score: 32, out of 40
So, there you have it. He peters out toward the end there, but with 30 points being the marker at which professionals could present a diagnosis of psychopathy, the implications are clear.

Trump's writer for The Art Of The Deal, Tony Schwartz, is also making the media rounds, warning us against this "sociopath":

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-...-2016/1.732564

So we are discriminating against sociopaths now? Like he can't be president because he is a sociopath? It's not his fault, it's nature. Poor little Trumpy.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by troutman

Olbermann (yeah I know) applies The Hare Psychopathy Checklist to Trump.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/...nn-sanity-test

Final Score: 32, out of 40
So, there you have it. He peters out toward the end there, but with 30 points being the marker at which professionals could present a diagnosis of psychopathy, the implications are clear.

Trump's writer for The Art Of The Deal, Tony Schwartz, is also making the media rounds, warning us against this "sociopath":

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-...-2016/1.732564

Trump's ghost writer is being sued by Trump. He didn't sign an NDA though. He was on Bill Maher this week.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

As we count angels on the head of a pin in discussing whether it is racist to want to deport all Muslims

No, that is not racist. It's stupid and terrible in many ways, but it isn't racist.

or to believe that Mexicans are criminals and rapists

This is racist, though Trump didn't actually say this. He said that some Mexicans are rapists and criminals (true), and that those are the Mexicans who cross the border illegally (false). It's xenophobic dog whistle stuff, for sure.

let's not forget about his discriminatory practices with respect to African Americans, and his comment that African Americans are "lazy."

Clearly, quintessentially racist statements.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to parse this. It's not that nuanced, is it?

[Dogbert]

That gesture Laura Ingraham made last night is certainly causing quite a Führer.

[Fuzz]

She probably did nazi that one coming.